M8.* timeline

amoz

amoz

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Maybe it is a dumb question, maybe there is just no one who can answer it, but I am going to ask it anyway. Is there any info on the M8 timeline, i.e. what is Leica aiming at in the next few years? More specifically, when will there be a new sensor (better high iso and/or FF)?

I know this is very critical and sensitive stuff, but I am for the first time seriously thinking about going (partly) digital. I also know that the M8 is already a very nice camera --I keep going back to Bruno Stevens' mission in Iran, and his convincing comments on the M8 afterwards (http://www.lightstalkers.org/leica_m8___is_it_any_good and for the pics: http://pa.photoshelter.com/c/bruno).

Thanks for sharing your knowledge on this issue!
 
I'm afraid no one here will know the answer. If they did, and they told you, they would lose their job!
I wouldn't expect anything significant until late 2010 anyway.
 
I don´t know anything more than others here, but would like to comment on the pictures you linked to.

I looked through all of them - how refreshing to see an M8 being used in this way!

Especially with this style, there is not any need for better resolution... It is much more about using a Leica M the way in which it delivers the best results.

The M8 is perfect for working with images without getting entangled in menus & gear in general, and I think these pictures are a good example of that...

I would like to have an M8.2, but I have no real need. Leica Ms are often about realizing what is essential - choosing one or a few focal lengths - and getting down to work...

Thanks for the link - and good luck with going digital! In my opinion the M8 is the best & really only way of working with digital in a ´film´way in that it makes me focus on seeing - and also when it comes to image quality.
 
Hmmm - maybe you are right about the S...

Personally I am just waiting for the second-hand prices to fall, then I will buy a second M8. And in a year or two the M8.2 will also be kind of affordable used...
 
I'm not sure Leica themselves know. The answer is that changes will be made as fast as possible, and that they are virtually certain there will be a 24x36 sensor one day. The only question is when.

As a piece of pure speculation on my part, i.e. with no input from Leica at all, I can't help wondering if a 24x36 version will all but demand modern coded lenses, at least below about 50mm or maybe 35mm, for optimum quality. Whereas I use lenses from 1936-2008 on my M8.2 (Elmar 50/3.5 + Thambar 90/2.2 to Zeiss 18/4 + Summarit 50/2.5). Lenses from the intervening decades include a Super-Wide-Heliar 15/4.5 and 21/2.8 Kobalux, both from the 1990s.

Cheers,

Roger
 
Thanks for the very reasonable replies. I understand that an educated guess is hardly an option in this matter. It will be up to me whether I take the plunge or not. As it is not my near-future ambition to go professional, i.e. make more money from my photography, I find it impossible to justify the cost.
 
It's trite to say, but if cost is your main concern you should consider how much you will spend on film and processing over the likely lifespan of a digital M. If you shoot a lot, it probably makes sense from a $$$ standpoint to get a used M8.
 
Andrew Sowerby said:
It's trite to say, but if cost is your main concern you should consider how much you will spend on film and processing over the likely lifespan of a digital M. If you shoot a lot, it probably makes sense from a $$$ standpoint to get a used M8.
Click to expand...

Thanks Andrew, you are absolutely right but I am struggling a bit with that. I think I spend about USD 40 per month on films (plus about the same amount on pro lab prints)... Who is to tell whether that is enough or not? I probably should sell a few other cameras I rarely use to have a good starting budget, and then justify the purchase from a longer term cost-gain perspective. Then again, it is a digital device, and I know I will want to upgrade it!

It's a tough one.
 
I was ambivilent about ever buying into an M8, however since you can now find clean lightly used, low actuated examples for under 3k, I figure, my battery of M lenses does no good sitting on the shelf. So, I've since bought a body and have been using it to death until my upgrade appointment at Leica comes up for new shutter and new warranty.
 
Though I knew if I waited a year or 2 I would be able to get an M8 as ex-demo for a lot less, my RD1 just wasn't pleasing me (mainly the choice of framelines and need to select them manually), so I paid full fare (at the time) for my M8. It was the only time I ever did so with a digital camera. I would love a FF M9 when the time comes, but having an M8 already, I won't be in a hurry to pay full retail right away. I finally got a 5D refurb, now that the Mark-2 is out. My 20D (a refurb) was bought for half the price of the current 30D and I'm still using it and pleased with its performance. The M8 is a fine performer. If I wait a couple years on an M9 I'll save a few thousand, and the stress of being an early-adopter.
 
Roger Hicks said:
I'm not sure Leica themselves know. The answer is that changes will be made as fast as possible, and that they are virtually certain there will be a 24x36 sensor one day. The only question is when.

As a piece of pure speculation on my part, i.e. with no input from Leica at all, I can't help wondering if a 24x36 version will all but demand modern coded lenses, at least below about 50mm or maybe 35mm, for optimum quality. Whereas I use lenses from 1936-2008 on my M8.2 (Elmar 50/3.5 + Thambar 90/2.2 to Zeiss 18/4 + Summarit 50/2.5). Lenses from the intervening decades include a Super-Wide-Heliar 15/4.5 and 21/2.8 Kobalux, both from the 1990s.

Cheers,

Roger
Click to expand...

This is a good point Roger. Assuming a larger sensor is possible for a moment, it would doubtless out resolve many lenses that people currently think are very good.

Most people are coming around to the fact that you don't need anymore than 10-12 MP unless you are printing above A3. If Leica can convince potential buyers that a full frame 12 MP camera is just as good in the real world as a 24MP version (probably better given the design of rangefinders) then we may see a full frame version in the next 3 to 4 years. I doubt it will be sooner.

How would people feel though having a full frame camera and a (relatively speaking) poor set of lenses?
 
I really doubt that it is possible to educate the public on resolution and megapixels...

I am very happy with 10 mpix myself, and I cannot really see the need for more when it comes to the type of photography I do with the M8. Low light capability would mean a lot more to me.

I have recently started using a 4X5 camera, it fits neatly in an ordinary bag along with my Leica gear. The really few times when I feel the need for maximum resolution, I wil be using it - or Mamiya RZ.

When it comes to actual prints, the M8 does so good that I have started ruling my Mamiya 6X7 gear out!

Maybe something in between will become reality, say a 15-16 mpix FF sensor with better low light capability. This would be more than enough for general photography, and would give the impression that Leica is also in on the pixel-race...
 
Leica is not going to put a fullframe sensor in an M-cam, as long as the edge performance of lenses on these sensors is critical. Saying this, I am glad that Leica does not join in in this ridiculous megapixel race. For the rest, I agree to aniMal: "Maybe something in between will become reality, say a 15-16 mpix FF sensor with better low light capability. This would be more than enough for general photography, and would give the impression that Leica is also in on the pixel-race..."
 
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