M8 Uncompressed 14-bit DNG

rivercityrocker said:
So in your opinion it's not worth the trouble?
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At least the color cast problem with the converter is solved. So I will try some high iso shots next weekend with original DNG and RAW. If don't see a difference in these shots, than my conclusion will be that the RAW files don't have a benefit and that Leica did a pretty good job with the compression.
 
jaapv said:
As far as I am aware the M9 uses the same compression as the M8 does. The Typ 240 uses a truly lossless compression.
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Are you saying that the uncompressed mode on the M9 is still compressed? So really it's a mode of "more compression" and "less compression"?

In any case, I really doubt the big difference in a case like this would be noise pattern, I would rather believe that the difference would be in tonal transitions between colors that are really close to each other in tone, but most of all gradation in shadows when pushing the exposure.
 
kennylovrin said:
Are you saying that the uncompressed mode on the M9 is still compressed? So really it's a mode of "more compression" and "less compression"?...
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No, compressed is compressed, and in a lossy way like the M8 as I understand it, and the M9 adds an uncompressed option that the M8 does not have. This effort described here is an attempt to create an uncompressed M8 file.
 
tom.w.bn said:
At least the color cast problem with the converter is solved. So I will try some high iso shots next weekend with original DNG and RAW. If don't see a difference in these shots, than my conclusion will be that the RAW files don't have a benefit and that Leica did a pretty good job with the compression.
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Thanks, I look forward to seeing your results.
 
Doug said:
No, compressed is compressed, and in a lossy way like the M8 as I understand it, and the M9 adds an uncompressed option that the M8 does not have. This effort described here is an attempt to create an uncompressed M8 file.
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Yeah that Is what I suspected, but as jaapv mentioned the M240 uses truly lossless compression I was a bit stumped..

On a different note, I have compared the compressed and uncompressed DNG on my M9, I'd like to say that I saw a difference, but it would be so slight that it could be my imagination. In the end though I use uncompressed anyway as I don't see any real point in not using it, even though a huge photo library can be a pain in the ass, it's not that expensive with hard drives..
 
kennylovrin said:
Yeah that Is what I suspected, but as jaapv mentioned the M240 uses truly lossless compression I was a bit stumped..
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Jaap is right, lossless compression in the M240 and also the S/S2... it's like zip compression: Zip it and the file is smaller, unzip and you have the original file again without loss of information. Same sort of idea.

kennylovrin said:
On a different note, I have compared the compressed and uncompressed DNG on my M9, I'd like to say that I saw a difference, but it would be so slight that it could be my imagination. In the end though I use uncompressed anyway as I don't see any real point in not using it, even though a huge photo library can be a pain in the ass, it's not that expensive with hard drives..
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Similar here... I couldn't be sure there was a difference in practice, but I chose the Compressed option. I don't have an M9 now, but plan to keep my M8, so this thread is interesting!
 
Doug said:
Jaap is right, lossless compression in the M240 and also the S/S2... it's like zip compression: Zip it and the file is smaller, unzip and you have the original file again without loss of information. Same sort of idea.


Similar here... I couldn't be sure there was a difference in practice, but I chose the Compressed option. I don't have an M9 now, but plan to keep my M8, so this thread is interesting!
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I am still confused then.. :)

So you are saying that the _uncompressed_ mode on the M9 is still a lossy compression, whereas on the M it isn't? Or are you saying that uncompressed mode is still using a lossless compression, whereas on the M it isn't compressed at all?

It's one thing that the file is compressed, I don't see any problem there, but I would expect the uncompressed mode to at least not be a lossy compression algorithm.
 
kennylovrin said:
I am still confused then.. :)

So you are saying that the _uncompressed_ mode on the M9 is still a lossy compression, whereas on the M it isn't? Or are you saying that uncompressed mode is still using a lossless compression, whereas on the M it isn't compressed at all?

It's one thing that the file is compressed, I don't see any problem there, but I would expect the uncompressed mode to at least not be a lossy compression algorithm.
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Sorry I've been unable to make it clear... I'll try a grid, but first there is no compression (lossy or not) in uncompressed files. Uncompressed mode uses no compression. Uncompressed mode is not available on the M8 except through the technique mentioned in this thread.

..........................M8 ...........M9 ...........M240
Compression ..... Lossy .......Lossy .......Not lossy
Uncompressed .....n/a ......No compr ....No compr
 
I tried this today and after looking at the histogram I found that the image has a somewhat compressed histogram in the blue channel, but not red and green. It may be because the lighting was a little warm, but it looks quite strange. Any thoughts on that?
 

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It's difficult to show these images because it really depends on how you process it. This is the image after some processing to move the reds and greens closer. The blue will not cooperate.

Side note: This appears to be a problem when I boost the ISO to 2500, but not when I use ISO 160. However, when I take a ISO 160 image and post-process in Photoshop to get higher exposure, I get a pinkish tint as well. So in summary, it appears the response curve on the three channels are not acting in the same way.
 

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Hey guys,

have been busy (though not on the tool so much, just became father :) )

So I see you are playing with the tool. Fine! I am sorry if the website does not explain everything in detail yet, I just need some time for it.

The last version does not produce magenta color casts any more, but you have to convert using the -b option for blacklevel estimation.

Actually the RAW files contain more pixels with full information, and I have no idea why they are excluded in the standard M8 DNG. I haven't measured, but there is a slight increase of the FOV and of course you now got perfect 3:2 aspect ratio.

If you have specific questions, you can contact me directly or ask here and I'll try to help of course. Just general "I don't get it" statements are hard to support :) It's really no big thing using it, you don't need to know much about computers and if you're on windows or mac you can use the droplet to apply the conversion without much fuss.

Have fun,

Arvid
 
New version 1.2beta released

New version 1.2beta released

Hello M8 users,

the new v1.2beta of my tool is released.

What's new?

m8raw2dngv1.2
  1. fixes the vertical lines that appear on many sensors
  2. fixes the unevenly distribution of the darkest levels and the issue with two differently calibrated sensor halves that show up when pushing the files at underexposed shots.
  3. fixes the colour casts in the shadows, this time for real
    wink.gif
  4. takes now also standard M8 DNG files to fix the lens exif data, apertures and the sensor issues
  5. runs now also on Mac OS X v10.7
  6. has been tested so far on nearly 1900 of my images successfully and is ready for you to take it to work on your files
The website has been modified and restructured, a lot of information and documentation has been added and will be added in the next time. The tool parameters are described and explained, there is a FAQ and a mailing list now, where you can subscribe to be notified on important updates.

So check it out, I have put an awful lot of work into it and am now really excited to get feedback on how it performs.

Contact me (preferably with the contact form on my site) if you have questions, suggestions, bug reports or something else to tell me.

Enjoy shooting and testing as much as I did enjoy the development!

Arvid
 
Arvid, you clearly have been hard at work on this project, thanks! And congratulations on recent fatherhood too.
 
This is a great app. I am usually a base ISO shooter where possible, but I still try and remember to set up RAW shooting mode whenever I remember. Once you have the droplet function set up it's a very quick method of creating your 16-bit DNGs fro the RAW+jpeg combo. The author (Arvid) is very quick to provide feedback to queries and his website is very comprehensive fro what is essentially freeware ('donateware').
 
The question is: did someone really observe a noticeable difference? I invested a lot of time and found exactly 0% improvement in dynamic range or noise.
 
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