M8 Upgrade costs and the declining Economy

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eleskin

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Any thoughts on how the upgrade prices may be affected by the economic downturn (Opps, a "D" word here, and yes, I believe we are indeed in a Depression). It seems to me they should go down along with everything else.
 
Prices for cars go down dramatically at the moment, but not prices for spare parts or the prices for a repair in general. The same applies to the M8 (car) and the upgrade prices (spare part / repair).
 
eleskin said:
It seems to me they should go down along with everything else.
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Why?

Just because someone can't afford something, doesn't mean it's overpriced.

And lowering the price would be an admission that it was overpriced before. Which I don't think it was.

No-one has a divine right to buy luxuries.

Tashi delegs,

R.
 
Leica equipment is overpriced. Period. Full stop. No one has a divine right to buy luxuries, it's true. No one has a divine right to exorbitant profit mark up, either.

In case you haven't noticed, super-luxury items are being discounted. I certainly don't think Leica has a moral obligation to lower its prices. It might have an economic one, though.
 
I believe they have a long waiting list to do upgrades (At least NJ)... So I doubt you will see a reduction in price...

Releasing the discreet shutter has shown little advantage to non upgraded M8's - So I would assume even more will want the new quieter shutter...

Mine had the full upgrade in January - Well worth it ;-)
 
Interesting, I called up THE leica dealer here in Seoul, and was told that you can walk in with an M8 and get it upgraded out the door next day. Too bad the price is now quite expensive due to the currency rate spike (was 1.4M KRW in Feb, now 2.4M KRW ~ $1500 USD for full upgrade)
 
In the UK at least, prices are going up on almost everything. As we no longer manufacture much almost everything is imported and at the mercy of exchange rates. The UK£ is now worth about 3 beans and a button :(
 
Their products can't be overpriced when they're making barely enough profit to survive. For part of their market they're really competing with their own high quality products. My oldest M2 dates to 1958, had at least three prior owners, two of them pros also, not sure about the first owner(s), and one CLA. I still use it all the time, it's still out there making money. $200 was a lot of money back then, true, but for 51 years of heavy use? Get real. $4 a year, a bit more than a penny a day. The only thing it lacks is a built in meter, and I prefer incident metering anyway.

That's figuring new, though, and I picked it up used for $100 in 1972, 37 years ago. That was one inexpensive camera! Most brands of camera wouldn't have withstood that level of use, even from 1958 to 1972. That means that I never had to replace it with an M4, M5, M6, etc. and Leitz didn't get to sell those cameras to me.

From a business model standpoint Bessa has the right idea. Make 'em cheap, sell 'em cheap, and it really doesn't pay to get 'em fixed when they break. You just buy a new one. Every two years! I've been through two Bessa L bodies, which I only use with a 15mm lens, in the past 3 or 4 years. Leica, less than $4 a year, Bessa (the cheap model without a rangefinder) $30 or $40 a year. I could still get a fair amount of money for that M2 while it wouldn't be worth the effort to try selling the Bessa.

Leicas are inexpensive cameras! You just have to keep using them.
 
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Roger Hicks said:
How are you defining 'overpriced'?

And if the mark-up is 'exorbitant', in whose pocket is all this money ending up?

Cheers,

R.
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Many people seem to say "overpriced" when they really mean "I can't afford it".

And there are still many people who have money, they are just choosing not to spend it. The savings rate in the US went from negative to positive (around 4%, IIRC) almost overnight. That is more of a depressing than stimulative effect.

As for markup, everyone seems to want THEIR "markup" as high as possible, while decrying that behaviour in others.
 
Yup, you gotta change babies on a regular basis! I squandered thirty bucks a couple of years ago on a purdy new "skin" from Cameraleather and "changed" my baby.
 
Al Kaplan said:
Their products can't be overpriced when they're making barely enough profit to survive.
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I don't see how Leica's financial struggles prove that it's products aren't overpriced. However, they do prove the company needs to fix something it's doing wrong - and let's remember that Leica's problems started long before the recession hit.


And I do agree with those who think the M8 upgrades are overpriced. And when I say "overpriced," I mean that I could easily afford it, but believe there is not enough value there to justify the cost. It's strictly an opinion of mine.
 
russianRF said:
Leica equipment is overpriced. Period. Full stop. No one has a divine right to buy luxuries, it's true. No one has a divine right to exorbitant profit mark up, either.

In case you haven't noticed, super-luxury items are being discounted. I certainly don't think Leica has a moral obligation to lower its prices. It might have an economic one, though.
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Leica's prices are too high but Leica is probably not making an exorbitant profit. In fact, I suspect the company is losing money. The problem is the high R&D and manufacturing costs for a niche product.

As I have said on this forum many times in the past, it is hard to make a sound business model around the manufacture of $5000 rangefinders. It just doesn't work. It can be the flagship product but it cannot be a large part of the business. Leica is making the right moves now with the S2, a new R, and a continuing partnership with Panasonic.
 
eleskin said:
Any thoughts on how the upgrade prices may be affected by the economic downturn (Opps, a "D" word here, and yes, I believe we are indeed in a Depression). It seems to me they should go down along with everything else.
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The full monty (shutter+frames+glass) just went up from $1700 to $2150 in the US. as of Feb. 16 (if you didn't already have your name on the list prior).
When I sent mine in (I was on the prior list) I suggested I'd be interested in the Vulcanite as well, for $100 (vs the $330 asking). After all, it's a cosmetic change, we all know (from Cameraleather and Aki Asahi) how inexpensive such things are, Leica has to remove the cover to do the shutter upgrade anyway, and times are tough. They politely declined my offer. So there you have your answer, at least for the time being. Whether Leica's business decisionmaking is wise for the long run, we'll just have to wait and see.

By contrast, I recently bought a so-called "high end" German automobile (depreciating slower than my stock portfolio these days). The salesman looked at me like I'd come to rescue him off a desert island, and he lopped an arm and a leg off the sticker price without me saying a word. I offered him a few grand less, and he accepted it without any of that phony "I'll have to go ask my manager" crap. It really makes me wonder what Leica is thinking, but I wish them well, they make a fine product.
 
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The way I look at this sort of question is as follows:
No one is forcing ANYONE to buy a Leica M8 or M8.2 OR upgrade their current M8.

The world, for the most part, seems to be stuck in a consumerist mind set that requires such downturns to shake people out of that mind set.

There is no 'need' to upgrade but if one can afford it, I'm sure one will do it.

Dave
 
Roger Hicks said:
Why?

Just because someone can't afford something, doesn't mean it's overpriced
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Logic seldom prevails on the Intertubes :bang:


Those flat screen TVs, on the other hand, are down by about 50%. They still are overpriced. Glorified computer monitors...I oughtta...just wait 'till I get my hands on...firgiin' fargen
 
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