M8 Viewfinder

[rsolti]

I am thinking about purchasing an M8. I currently have nothing but Nikon DSLRs and on a regular basis use ZF lenses. I am thinking about purchasing the M8 as a light option when walking the streets. I have done a lot of research and the one final question I can't seem to find is, what does the viewfinder of the M8 look like compared to the D700 or 5DMII for Canon users? I know it is a 1.3 crop, but is the viewfinder as small as say a DX DSLR? My concern is that I don't have the best eyesight but it is good enough to nail focus on manual focus lenses on the D700 since the viewfinder is so large. On my D90 (DX) I have a very hard time nailing focus with manual focus lenses because of the small size of the viewfinder.

So, question is, is the viewfinder more like the full frame DSLRs, crop DSLRs, middle or neither?

Thanks in advance

 

[pachuco]

Have you ever used a rangefinder before? If not, you really should check one out at a camera shop. It is completely different from that of a SLR in my opinion. Good luck!

 

[rsolti]

I used an M2 a few years back and want to get back into a rangefinder so I know about the framelines and all. I am more concerned about the size of the viewfinder relative to the SLR. So, viewing a 28mm line in the M8 how does it compare to viewing a 28mm lens in the D700?

And one more thing, the M8.2 viewfinder upgrade, is that just to update accuracy of the lines? Is that really a problem with the M8 or is it easy to work around?

And, unfortunately, I do not live anywhere near a camera shop that would have any in stock.

 

[MCTuomey]

my vision isn't the best. but i find a rangefinder to be easier and more accurate than my dSLRs when using manual focus lenses. and that's with canon FF and 1.3x bodies with special focus screens.

the M8 v M8.2 viewfinder debate: i didn't upgrade because i found that i got used to the M8's "ample" framelines at med and long distances. the mental adjustment wasn't hard for me. i think i'm in the minority, though. if you like framing accuracy, you'll probably prefer the upgrade.

 

[dof]

While I cannot comment on the full frame Nikons, compared to the DX models I've shot, the M8 viewfinder is larger.

However if focusing is the primary concern you should consider that the point of focus for rangefinders depends on the size of the rangefinder patch, not the entire field of view of the viewfinder.

 

[pachuco]

And, unfortunately, I do not live anywhere near a camera shop that would have any in stock.

Darn! That would be the best option if possible. Where do you live? Perhaps there is a RFF member in your area that can let you check on out. I know I would. This is my personal opinion but if/when my eye sight starts to fail me, I will switch to a autofocus SLR. I love my Leica but my focus is only as good as I am.

 

[Doug]

I used an M2 a few years back and want to get back into a rangefinder so I know about the framelines and all. I am more concerned about the size of the viewfinder relative to the SLR...

Since you’ve had experience with an M2, it might be easier to compare the M8 to that. Essentially the same, no miniaturization as found in some SLRs, with that tunnel effect one wishes to avoid.

 

[former member]

What focal length lenses do you plan on using? With a 50mm and longer focal length, I use a 1.25x magnifier with my M8.

With 35mm and shorter, you get a large portion of the viewfinder to use.

 

[dogberryjr]

What focal length lenses do you plan on using? With a 50mm and longer focal length, I use a 1.25x magnifier with my M8.

With 35mm and shorter, you get a large portion of the viewfinder to use.

Agreed. The 1.25x magnifier was some of the best money I've spent.

 

[zleica]

I have been using both D700 and M8. For wide angel lenses, 24, 28, 35, M8 is better compared with that of D700. But for normal and especially mid-tele lenses, such as 50, 75/85, and 90, D700 is much easier to focus.

 

[rsolti]

What focal length lenses do you plan on using? With a 50mm and longer focal length, I use a 1.25x magnifier with my M8.

With 35mm and shorter, you get a large portion of the viewfinder to use.

I plan on shooting 35mm equivalent of 21-50 or so....maybe 100mm but that is very seldom. I am thinking I would want 15/25/35/75 for the M8

Pachuco, I am in Savannah, GA. Know of anyone? 🙂

It sounds like focusing should be quite easy, that is my only real concern. Now to sell some items and get the funds 🙂

 

[menos]

I am thinking about purchasing an M8. I currently have nothing but Nikon DSLRs and on a regular basis use ZF lenses. I am thinking about purchasing the M8 as a light option when walking the streets. I have done a lot of research and the one final question I can't seem to find is, what does the viewfinder of the M8 look like compared to the D700 or 5DMII for Canon users? I know it is a 1.3 crop, but is the viewfinder as small as say a DX DSLR? My concern is that I don't have the best eyesight but it is good enough to nail focus on manual focus lenses on the D700 since the viewfinder is so large. On my D90 (DX) I have a very hard time nailing focus with manual focus lenses because of the small size of the viewfinder.

So, question is, is the viewfinder more like the full frame DSLRs, crop DSLRs, middle or neither?

Thanks in advance

Regarding viewfinder:

I used to have a Nikon D300, looking for a FX Nikon, I played with a D700 and had a D3 in my hands for a few moments.

Once, I had the D3 viewfinder in my mind, the D700 looked like a toy in comparison. I loved my new D3 since then.

When I got my first Leica, the D3 viewfinder immediately shrunk to Canon PS optical peephole viewfinder size!

If you love the perception through your Nikon D700 viewfinder, you will L.O.V.E any Leica viewfinder immediately!
Everything is bigger and better. You can use it better with both eyes open than the DSLR viewfinder, as there is no parallax failure (you watch through the lens on the DSLR, but directly through a straight window on the RF camera).

I find manual focussing especially in low light easier with the RF than with the D3.

You just have to get used to the framing. Shooting with a non 100% viewfinder in the D700 though should bot be too difficult, to get used to the "imprecise" RF framing.
Depending on your usual subject distance you might like a M8 or M8.2 better (the frame lines are adjusted towards different focus distances and therefore more loose on the M8 and more precise on the M8.2 with further away subjects).

 

[Vic]

The M8 viewfinder is the worst Leica M finder, in terms of frame line coverage. However, since you are shooting digital, and can chimp, it won't cost you anything to figure out the framing compensation as you familiarize yourself with the camera. That said, the M8 is a terrific camera.

 

[zleica]

The M8 viewfinder is the worst Leica M finder, in terms of frame line coverage. However, since you are shooting digital, and can chimp, it won't cost you anything to figure out the framing compensation as you familiarize yourself with the camera. That said, the M8 is a terrific camera.

Totally agree.

 

[fotomeow]

From Menos: "Depending on your usual subject distance you might like a M8 or M8.2 better (the frame lines are adjusted towards different focus distances and therefore more loose on the M8 and more precise on the M8.2 with further away subjects)."

What differences do you actually SEE in the VF b/w the M8 VF and the M8.2 VF? How can I tell the difference if I've never looked through either one???

I just ordered an M8upgraded with shutter and LCD. However, the dealer didnt know if the VF was upgraded or not. It was such a good deal, I bought it anyway, and it is en route to me.
thanks

 

[pachuco]

Pachuco, I am in Savannah, GA. Know of anyone? 🙂

Hmm... I know KEH is somewhere around there but I live in Portland, OR. If you take a trip out my way shoot me a message!

 

[Roger Hicks]

From Menos: "Depending on your usual subject distance you might like a M8 or M8.2 better (the frame lines are adjusted towards different focus distances and therefore more loose on the M8 and more precise on the M8.2 with further away subjects)."

What differences do you actually SEE in the VF b/w the M8 VF and the M8.2 VF? How can I tell the difference if I've never looked through either one???

I just ordered an M8upgraded with shutter and LCD. However, the dealer didnt know if the VF was upgraded or not. It was such a good deal, I bought it anyway, and it is en route to me.
thanks

You see exactly the same, but the framelines are very slightly different sizes.

Cheers.

R.

 

[Doug]

Roger's right. I have both the original M8 and one with the upgraded finder. The frameline is enough different that if handed an anonymous M8 I could probably identify which it had. But it's not a large difference, the displacement of the 24mm frames amounting to about 1 or 2 thicknesses of the framelines themselves. The original has slightly smaller frames, more accurate at the close-focus limit, and more conservative at longer distances (giving you a bit more in the pic than expected). Some folks get emotional about this issue....

 

[jaapv]

There is a considerable difference between a reflex viewfinder and an optical viewfinder. With an SLR you see a projection of the image the lens throws - i.e. you are looking at the image you'll get.
With the optical viewfinder you are looking at a section of reality directly. The field of view of your lens is represented by the framelines in the viewfinder. That has ome consequences.

-You will always see (considerably, depending on focal length) more than just the part that the lens capture.

-The framelines that represent your image borders will nearly always be inaccurate, as they can only be optimized for one distance. In the case of the M8 at 0.7m, the M8u and M8.2 at 2 meters. Anything closer will give you a smaller photograph than you can see, anything going to infinity will give you a larger image than you expect The percentage varies with the focal length.

-The only way to learn is by experience.

-You will see the framelines shifting as you focus. That is parallax compensation.


All this combined makes your viewfinder your err...viewfinder, your composing tool and nothing else.

Inside the viewfinder is also a rangefinder patch. This is your focussing tool. For the use I would refer you to the M9 FAQ thread on LUF, post # 9


Again it is a learning curve and it takes time and practice to become proficient.


Hope this helps

 

[fotomeow]

thanks for the info, Roger, Doug, Jaap. Doesnt sound like much of a difference, but, as mentioned, perhaps some folks feel strongly about those differences ......