NickTrop
Veteran
Paint flaking off after two weeks? Are you sure this is a Leica and not a "Leica" like the "Rolodex" I once wore? Did you buy it from somebody selling "Leicas" out of their trunk?
menos
Veteran
I am absolutely in line with you on that one. When I pull a camera out of my bag to try a lens at one of the second hand dealers, the sales guys are always all over at and laugh at me, how I tape these things ;-)
Thanks a lot for the black pen tip with stupid logos on clothes. Just prepared a heavily used messenger bag to see how the black pen holds up. Other items are on hold too…
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
I'm the precise opposite. I don't feel right using a new camera until I scratch or bump it. Then I can relax. Newness freaks me out--it is the most fragile--and ultimately, freakish--thing in the world.
I've only got one camera I bought new actually, the Pana GF1...so far it's in good shape...gotta do something about that. ;-)
Anyway, I'm with the use it until the warranty's almost up camp. Guarantee, if you send it to Leica now, it will be gone for months, then a week after you get it back something else bad will happen.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Of course it is possible to do so.
kbg32
neo-romanticist
The camera works fine, keep it. Apologies to all, but I can't believe this thread is still going.
Richard Marks
Rexel
If only people buying used had this sentement. The bottom line. This is actually about resale value. If one is going to keep a camera forever and do not care how it looks then its not a problem. But if you fund new gear partly from the resale of older gear then this really is a problem as the buyer will say its defective. Leica buyers are generally pretty picky about this sort of thing as the length of this thread shows.
Richard
Tom Diaz
Well-known
I recently sold an M8 body for $2375, a good price for both me and the buyer, I thought. The body was flawless except for the slightly flaked-off M on the front. I could have touched it up at that point and called the camera "mint," although I don't think the price would have been terribly different. (I also would have felt that a little unethical, but maybe that's beside the point.) At least in that case I think the market for used M8s, in the face of the M9, set the price. If the new owner is reading, note that you can fix up that M pretty easily if you want to for any reason.
Leica did quickly replace an M8 body for me at one point. They had repaired it but they left a screw loose, so when it came back the top was loose. They were properly embarrassed. At that point they could have just said "we're really sorry, send it back and we'll be sure everything is completely as it should be." Instead, they just called me back and said they were shipping me a new one. So they do give that kind of service. I think this was a far more serious service issue than a flake in the M. When a product doesn't work, or might not work right without a lot of fuss, people and companies are different.
I would like to think this story gets back to Leica and that they fix the paint quality (since evidently I can do a better job with hobby shop paint than what they are doing in the factory). However, I don't think they are going to treat it as if it were a major functional flaw, replacing cameras and so on. I'd have been happy if they had done it for me with the M6TTL I have, but I was not surprised they didn't, and I still bought more cameras from them.
Tom
Richard Marks
Rexel
A very real issue for me in the Uk is turn around time and in a way this plays to Leicas advantage to deal with potential 'nuisance quibles'. They can be pretty sure that you are not going to send back nearly £5,000 of camera to germany with a 6 to 8 week turnaround time for minor issues as the loss of use is a bigger penalty to the purchaser than the advantage gained by minor repairs or alterations.
I genuinely need some sort of service centre in the UK before I would consider spending that much. Interestingly for around an additional £5,000 on the price of an S2 they are offering a 24 hour replacement service in the UK.
My M8 whent back 3 times and all in December / January when light over here is very poor. Some consolation I suppose.
Richard
I genuinely need some sort of service centre in the UK before I would consider spending that much. Interestingly for around an additional £5,000 on the price of an S2 they are offering a 24 hour replacement service in the UK.
My M8 whent back 3 times and all in December / January when light over here is very poor. Some consolation I suppose.
Richard
Tom Diaz
Well-known
I agree with you. I would not want my only recourse to be sending the machine to Germany.
However, I have Leica USA fairly nearby in New Jersey, and they still discouraged me from sending in the camera to have them fix the flaky M.
Richard Marks
Rexel
Dear Tom
Im amazed if they were discourageing. I would have thought they wanted this dealt with very quickly and would also be very keen to investigate the cause. Clearly there is quite a bit of increadularity here on this forum that something so expensive and produced in small numbers can have a poor paint job. It can not be helping their reputation. On a positive note there do not seem to be any technical problems emerging with the M9.
I think I would photograph and record the complaint and write to Leica saying that you will be returing the camera at your convenience within the warranty period, and choose a time when you are not plannig to take too many pictures. Another reason to wait a bit is just in case there are any further issues (rangefinder allignment etc.) you can get that done same trip.
Best wishes
Richard
bottley1
only to feel
I would black out the middle of the "M" - you will be the proud owner of the first "Leica 119"
Richard Marks
Rexel
I am sure you are right.
However I think for film M's I was not worried about sending things to Germany as it was so unlikely to fail and also borrowing another film M for a while would not be too difficult. The issue with M9 is as with any digital device, more potemtial for mal functioning (sensor and playback screen alone introduce a large potential for failures) and this I accept, but equally with a higher probability of needing service, it has to at least be in the same country as the prosepcts of a loaner are very remote. My M8 whent back 3 times. Over 3 years I effectively lost just under 6 months of use. Depreciation in 3 years £1200, running costs therefore £400 per year, one could argue £200 of loss of use. The figures might well be greater for a camera costing nearly twice as much.
Richard
DougFord
on the good foot
If the contraption is working to specification but has a minor cosmetic flaw that you can’t/won’t live with, then I would arrange, through the dealer, to have the top plate replaced.
Coordinate with leica nj to be certain that they have spare top plates available and in stock, then schedule the service. Easy as pie, right? On second thought…..
Coordinate with leica nj to be certain that they have spare top plates available and in stock, then schedule the service. Easy as pie, right? On second thought…..
Tom Diaz
Well-known
Considering the subject of this thread, I think a man who calls himself "chippy" should have the last word.
Richard Marks
Rexel
without wanting to stir the bats from the roof of the cave! i feel you are on track, and unfortunately blessed with the same unfortunate disposition of assessing 'Leica's economics in relation to ones self (like me), so much easier when you dont give a crap about the money eh! or the service! or repair, or wanantee...now its all electric/digi it IS going to cause more problems compared to the mech cams, the parts come from the same places as other companies use, they are all constructed to a point of..hmm failure, not to last!oh so negative, but 'such is life' [Ned Kelly]
I am not knocking technology. Digital can do some brilliant things (although actually shot tri x all day today not quite dry yet!!). Some of my best pics of 2009 are digital. I simply feel that it does need more support than mechanical products and until Leica get a repair facility in the UK I am not going to consider an M9. I can afford it but i do not want to. Leica make the best glass in the world but it should not give them the liberty to offer such poor support. The best glass in the world is useless in the UK if the body is in Solms!
Best wishes
Richard
Olsen
Well-known
One instance of white paint coming off is not going to make me make a judgement on the M9 quality. Generally, the paint work of Leica cameras have always been very good. I have urged Scott to investigate if it is anything in the way he has handled the camera that can have made the white paint come off. My 4 years old M8 has not white paint wear. Nor my 10 years old MP. - While the black paint on my Canon 1Ds III shows large scars of wear after only less than 2 years of use....
It seems to me that the M9 quality, in general, is good, and obviously far better than the M8 when that was launched. But still I am a bit weary of the corner quality of particularly super wide lenses, like the WATE. Have anyone seen M9 tested with wide angle lenses by Sean Reid or others?
Mark,
I think it is far better to send any faulty camera to one sentral service shop, preferably the factory in Solms, than having several service centers around Europe. Don't forget; Britain is no longer the center of an empire. Britain is now in the outskirts of the Central Europe,- like some 'drenched Moldova' under a rain cloud, half way out in the Atlantic. Who want to send their camera to a place that just might be washed away by the next reinstorm? For all we know; Britain just might be the next Atlantis...
It seems to me that the M9 quality, in general, is good, and obviously far better than the M8 when that was launched. But still I am a bit weary of the corner quality of particularly super wide lenses, like the WATE. Have anyone seen M9 tested with wide angle lenses by Sean Reid or others?
Mark,
I think it is far better to send any faulty camera to one sentral service shop, preferably the factory in Solms, than having several service centers around Europe. Don't forget; Britain is no longer the center of an empire. Britain is now in the outskirts of the Central Europe,- like some 'drenched Moldova'
under a rain cloud, half way out in the Atlantic. Who want to send their camera to a place that just might be washed away by the next reinstorm? For all we know; Britain just might be the next Atlantis...Richard Marks
Rexel
Mark,
I think it is far better to send any faulty camera to one sentral service shop, preferably the factory in Solms, than having several service centers around Europe. Don't forget; Britain is no longer the center of an empire. Britain is now in the outskirts of the Central Europe,- like some 'drenched Moldova'
Dear Olsen (You can call me Richard)
I am not making any claims as to the importance of Brittain in world affairs, far from it. But it is still an island. This has of course been useful in repelling invaders over the centuries but can be a pain for getting cameras repaired by foreigners some of whom have never tased Yorkshire pudding as a first course .
If there is no service centre in the UK Im not buying given the hassle I had with my M8. Nikon Canon and Hasselblad fortunately do not seem to agree with your centralisation philosophy and offer turn around times in the UK around 10 working days. Nikon and Canon even tested the prototypes for weather sealing in our fine climate. Who knows if the sun came out we could even take some photographs outside.Finally may I say in the unfortunate event that I do get washed away before posting again, just how much I have enjoyed this web site and especially communicating with those who can read my first name.
All the best for 2010
Mark (richards)
robklurfield
eclipse
For $6995, you should have the privilege of creating the first scratch on this yourself. For $2995, I'd keep it. For this kind of lettuce, however, I want a pristine one. And, have a loaner, if necessary while I wait. There are people on this site who have never spent that much money on a car let alone a camera. For Leica to maintain their current status of a purveyor of not just cameras, but really, also, exclusive luxury goods (maybe some of wish that weren't there position in the market, I for one, the reality is, this what they are), they have to take a white-gloved approach to customer service.
I once returned for exchange a BMW automobile because, after driving it for two weeks while the dealership's detailer was on vacation, the dealer painted the pinstripe in the wrong color. This was a car my wife bought with a small inheritance when her brother passed away about 15 years ago, so the car was a very emotional purchase for her (and, much fancier than what we normally drive). The dealer told me they'd gladly "grind the old pinstripe" off the car. Wrong choice of words. After about two hours of telling the sales manager that the only thing I'd accept would be a new car, he relented and the car back with about 1,000 miles and gave us another one of the floor.
When I buy 50-year old M2 or Rolleicord and find they have flaws, I'm annoyed, but expect that this comes with the territory. When I buy a brand new, very expensive Leica, I expect it to be perfect. If it's not, I expect the dealer and/or the manufacturer to fall all over themselves to make it right. BTW, the M2 is with Youxin and the 'Cord is with Krikor.
I once returned for exchange a BMW automobile because, after driving it for two weeks while the dealership's detailer was on vacation, the dealer painted the pinstripe in the wrong color. This was a car my wife bought with a small inheritance when her brother passed away about 15 years ago, so the car was a very emotional purchase for her (and, much fancier than what we normally drive). The dealer told me they'd gladly "grind the old pinstripe" off the car. Wrong choice of words. After about two hours of telling the sales manager that the only thing I'd accept would be a new car, he relented and the car back with about 1,000 miles and gave us another one of the floor.
When I buy 50-year old M2 or Rolleicord and find they have flaws, I'm annoyed, but expect that this comes with the territory. When I buy a brand new, very expensive Leica, I expect it to be perfect. If it's not, I expect the dealer and/or the manufacturer to fall all over themselves to make it right. BTW, the M2 is with Youxin and the 'Cord is with Krikor.
scottwallick
ambition ≥ skill
Update on the flaking issue
Update on the flaking issue
In conclusion, I have decided to just keep the M9, enjoy using it, and perhaps when the time comes to send it to Leica, I can have the engravings restored to the condition they should have been in the first place.
I appreciate everyone's good advice. Cheers.
Update on the flaking issue
In conclusion, I have decided to just keep the M9, enjoy using it, and perhaps when the time comes to send it to Leica, I can have the engravings restored to the condition they should have been in the first place.
I appreciate everyone's good advice. Cheers.
scottwallick
ambition ≥ skill
Five months later, here's the update.
In February, I decided to send in my M9 because I had two lenses that needed adjusting (one wasn't focusing to infinity) too, so I sent them in all together.
It took two months, but when I received my M9 back from Solms via Popflash, the engravings and paint were fixed and back to the new condition it should have been from the beginning.
So, +1 Leica.
In February, I decided to send in my M9 because I had two lenses that needed adjusting (one wasn't focusing to infinity) too, so I sent them in all together.
It took two months, but when I received my M9 back from Solms via Popflash, the engravings and paint were fixed and back to the new condition it should have been from the beginning.
So, +1 Leica.