eleskin
Well-known
A few days ago I read a review of the M9 on Adorama'a web site on the M9 by Gil Lavi regarding a catastrophic event where he lost a photo shoot due to the M9 not functioning well with newer Sandisc SD cards. He tried 2 cameras and same problem. Many have commented he has sour grapes against Leica, and may have not formatted the card right. I started to doubt his claim.
Then I read this direct quote from Leica:
"A specially set up team at Leica Camera AG has been working in close collaboration with SD memory card manufacturers on an intensive investigation of possible causes for the phenomenon reported by Leica M9 users. As no clear pattern has so far emerged on the basis of the error reports at our disposal, this investigation is proving to be extremely laborious. I the meantime, we have been able to narrow down the number of possible causes of error. Nevertheless, we must unfortunatly call your attention to the possibility of errors still occurring with newer SD cards and that such errors are not limited to particular brands or types of cards.
Leica camera is now working towards earliest possible validation of remedial measures that will lead to an improvement of compatibility. We will report as soon as possible when reliable information on the schedule for the implementation of such measures is available.
We would like to thank the numerous customers who provided information about their camera systems and helped us in our search for a solution to the problem"
Translation: We F#@#&d up and are praying for a solution to a(software and electronics) product that was not ready to be released and is not up to the standards of the competition and everyone who owns one is a beta tester, part 2 just like the M8!
If I blew 7K on an M9 and I just read this, I would be royally pissed off. Come on man! For 7K and this kind of problem? Most tragically, there were photos lost that NEVER can be replaced, that is the tragedy. I really do not know what to say. I have 2 M8 cameras and did not buy the M9 and I really feel bad for all of you who are beta testers for Leica with the M9. I thought this would have ended with the M8 but it did not.
For a pro, this is a horror! What if you are out on a shoot and need more cards and all they have are new ones and this crap happens. Can Leica be trusted if your job depends on it/ Scary and really sad stuff.
My message to Leica: Please, get out of the electronics business. You cannot handle it. Just build us the rangefinder, lens, and metal camera shell. Have someone who knows what the hell they are doing build the electronics. If you have to let Sony or someone else do it , fine, our feelings will not be hurt.
Leica MUST concentrate on it's strength! GREAT LENSES AND CAMERA SHELLS /RANGEFINDERS. FORGET THE ELECTRONICS!!!
Then I read this direct quote from Leica:
"A specially set up team at Leica Camera AG has been working in close collaboration with SD memory card manufacturers on an intensive investigation of possible causes for the phenomenon reported by Leica M9 users. As no clear pattern has so far emerged on the basis of the error reports at our disposal, this investigation is proving to be extremely laborious. I the meantime, we have been able to narrow down the number of possible causes of error. Nevertheless, we must unfortunatly call your attention to the possibility of errors still occurring with newer SD cards and that such errors are not limited to particular brands or types of cards.
Leica camera is now working towards earliest possible validation of remedial measures that will lead to an improvement of compatibility. We will report as soon as possible when reliable information on the schedule for the implementation of such measures is available.
We would like to thank the numerous customers who provided information about their camera systems and helped us in our search for a solution to the problem"
Translation: We F#@#&d up and are praying for a solution to a(software and electronics) product that was not ready to be released and is not up to the standards of the competition and everyone who owns one is a beta tester, part 2 just like the M8!
If I blew 7K on an M9 and I just read this, I would be royally pissed off. Come on man! For 7K and this kind of problem? Most tragically, there were photos lost that NEVER can be replaced, that is the tragedy. I really do not know what to say. I have 2 M8 cameras and did not buy the M9 and I really feel bad for all of you who are beta testers for Leica with the M9. I thought this would have ended with the M8 but it did not.
For a pro, this is a horror! What if you are out on a shoot and need more cards and all they have are new ones and this crap happens. Can Leica be trusted if your job depends on it/ Scary and really sad stuff.
My message to Leica: Please, get out of the electronics business. You cannot handle it. Just build us the rangefinder, lens, and metal camera shell. Have someone who knows what the hell they are doing build the electronics. If you have to let Sony or someone else do it , fine, our feelings will not be hurt.
Leica MUST concentrate on it's strength! GREAT LENSES AND CAMERA SHELLS /RANGEFINDERS. FORGET THE ELECTRONICS!!!
back alley
IMAGES
this is ancient history...a number of threads on rff about it...
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Well, I don't want to be (nor I think anyone could state I was) a Leica apologist but let's not forget that in order to have issues with "newer" SD cards you have to have a Leica M9 (apparently) and a new SD card. So, is the problem with the M9 or the fact that they just aren't "compatible yet" with newer SD cards? Did Sandisk change something about their cards to make them faster? (I honestly don't know how fast you need your SD card to be, I'm still using Ultra II's and the occasional Extreme III and I can't tell a difference in the speed of saving/processing/reading on my cameras or my laptop/desktop).
This sort of conundrum may be with the camera or the card or both.
That said, I haven't used a Leica digital product since selling my M8 a couple years ago now...
Cheers,
Dave
This sort of conundrum may be with the camera or the card or both.
That said, I haven't used a Leica digital product since selling my M8 a couple years ago now...
Cheers,
Dave
eleskin
Well-known
I guess this has been discussed. I ran across this on Leica Rumors and this was the top story. Even if this has been discussed, I am disgusted reading this, and it is unfortunate the issue is ongoing! For 7K this SHOULD NOT HAPPEN! PERIOD!
Sorry for my emotions!
Sorry for my emotions!
Archiver
Veteran
Yeah. Gil turned up here to blast Leica, too. While the noise he has made has no doubt helped get Leica to make a statement, one wonders if they would have quietly fixed this in the backend and offered updates in the course of things, anyway.
Old news. I have a M9 and it works just fine. Obviously it's bad for people who have run into that fault, but my camera, and many others, are just fine in the SD card department.
Old news. I have a M9 and it works just fine. Obviously it's bad for people who have run into that fault, but my camera, and many others, are just fine in the SD card department.
eleskin
Well-known
Maybe I can go on Ebay and sell used older SD cards that are M9 compatible! They may even go up in value like Leica lenses! A prized possession old SD cards could become!
Keyne
Established
I hear what you are saying about it being an issue, but honestly the emotion is a bit much. I am not a pro but I would hope a pro would test all equipment before using it and think of backup plans just in case. It sucks for the guy that lost his work but I am sure things have happened like that with film in the past as well (statistically speaking it must have) and for most people digital has put more vertical integration and control in the hands of the photographer that should reduce such issues. Maybe he should have gone with lower tech cards proven to work (I know I do). That being said I love these high emotion posts about Leica issues that seem to say that because it's an expensive Leica it must work in ALL conditions and scenarios or it's a POS that only stupid rich people buy... From what I have read... After the sins of the M8 (which I happily own) Leica has repented and succeeded with the M9... Wow they are having issues with the later SD cards... Relax and buy the cheaper older ones that you know will work (if you are a pro buy them by a 12 pack just in case....).
Archiver
Veteran
The 'electronics' have lifted Leica out of a long financial slump and put them back into money. They were on the verge of collapse when only selling film cameras and lenses, if I understand things correctly. Going back to lenses and film bodies would not seem the best option for keeping Leica a financially viable company.
The M9 has sold an estimated 30,000 units in the two years since its release. And every M9 Titanium limited edition sold, too. Not bad for a boutique company that was barely trading solely on cachet and film usage not that long ago.
MartinP
Veteran
Remember the SD 'standard' is not an interface standard in the same way that CompactFlash is, or sata on your computer. Each generation of SD cards has to be dealt with in the firmware, with updates etc. Also the new cards are the ones with the most counterfeits (25% of Sandisk cards according to Sandisk three years ago). On top of that, there might not be perfect support for the newest cards from Leica anyway - put all this together and there is a combination adding up to "more than the sum of its parts" as you might say.
sig
Well-known
At least you have to give it to mr Gil that he proved that 1 angry man can make enough fuss to get Leica to give a statement admitting there is an issue and that they are working on it.
It also proves that Leica gives a damn about their customers (at least the angry ones that put out a statement on every leica related web page in the world)
It also proves that Leica gives a damn about their customers (at least the angry ones that put out a statement on every leica related web page in the world)
I Love Film
Well-known
So you don't even have the camera, yet you take the time to write a long, disparaging post about the M9? Tragedy?? Horror?? A death in the family is a tragedy, not a lost file on an SD card.
I have a Leica M9, and I also have about 20 various SD cards, even some ancient ones 6 or 7 years old.
I have discovered maybe two or three SD cards that have this problem. The others work flawlessly, including a brand new Transcend 32GB card.
The ones that don't work, which can be discovered in about two minutes, I don't use. No problem.
I accept the fact that Leica is a relatively small, "boutique" type operation that does not have the technical resources of a huge company like Canon, for example. The pleasure of using the camera far outweighs the problems that turn up. Sort of like driving a vintage car.
Nobody is holding a gun to your head, if you don't like Leicas, don't buy them. Vote with your wallet.
Having said that, I'm sure the SD card problem will eventually be solved.
Maybe you should find other expensive manufactured items you don't own, and you can post angry critiques of them, too.
How about those tricky electronics on the new Lamborghini? Real horror.
.
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Sandisk screwed up the SD card Royally.
Blaming Leica is ridiculous.
Blame Sandisk, I do.
They have had my defective card for over a month and cannot post an expected ship date for the replacement card.
The Sandisk card screwed up after using in my Win7 machine, and was never in my M9.
This is "just venting", and old news at that.
Blaming Leica is ridiculous.
Blame Sandisk, I do.
They have had my defective card for over a month and cannot post an expected ship date for the replacement card.
The Sandisk card screwed up after using in my Win7 machine, and was never in my M9.
This is "just venting", and old news at that.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Let's be glad they're not in the parachute business! 
I think this is a bit of a storm in a teacup. I'm sure there's working pros out there who have had costly ****ups with canikons etc that didn't do what they were supposed to, but they were probably professional enough to have reliable backups!
And ... felt no need to shout about it from the rooftops!
I think this is a bit of a storm in a teacup. I'm sure there's working pros out there who have had costly ****ups with canikons etc that didn't do what they were supposed to, but they were probably professional enough to have reliable backups!
And ... felt no need to shout about it from the rooftops!
And I am still waiting to here from Sandisk on why it is taking so long. I made another inquiry on the RMA, still waiting to hear back from them.
http://rangefinderforum.com/modules.php?name=News&file=showarticle&threadid=109092
http://rangefinderforum.com/modules.php?name=News&file=showarticle&threadid=109092
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Amazing ... I don't think I've ever seen a thread despatched to OT with such speed!
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I use a bunch of Lexar* cards WITHOUT ISSUE on two M9 bodies. Never had the problems described. Occasionally the last image on a card (read filling the card up) slows down the write time- but the last frame on a roll sometimes makes the wind-on stop mid-yank...
I do feel for those with problems, but having used two M9 bodies far apart in serial numbers hard for the last year and a half plus without a single write error, and knowing several other M9 users who've not had any troubles I'm not sure this is the "common problem" some make it out to be. I'd suggest those with troubles just buy some more cards - they're quite cheap. Seems like complaining how much one hates Kodak Max yet not buying Fuji 400H to try....
* No affiliation with this seller- I use the Lexar Professional 133X cards like this one (but 2GB ones here).
I do feel for those with problems, but having used two M9 bodies far apart in serial numbers hard for the last year and a half plus without a single write error, and knowing several other M9 users who've not had any troubles I'm not sure this is the "common problem" some make it out to be. I'd suggest those with troubles just buy some more cards - they're quite cheap. Seems like complaining how much one hates Kodak Max yet not buying Fuji 400H to try....
* No affiliation with this seller- I use the Lexar Professional 133X cards like this one (but 2GB ones here).
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Araakii
Well-known
The whole thing has been grossly blown out of proportion. Everybody thinks that their images were lost forever when it's not even true.
Amazing ... I don't think I've ever seen a thread despatched to OT with such speed!
I'm tired of everyone blaming the Camera for this problem, and bought a Sandisk card to try with other devices- before trying in my Leica M9. It never made it to the M9, was unusable after formatting under Win7. It would not work in the Oly EP2 or Ricoh CX-1. I could transfer files to it using the computer, and they were corrupt. A google search and visit to the Sandisk Forum would have shown this card has problems with other cameras and devices as well.
My HP Laptop, bought this year, would not even recognize that the card was in the slot. Even when booting up with it there. Sandisk states that you can expect the card to be shipped within 10 days of them receiving the defective card. It has been over a month. I am going on the theory that there is something long with the design of the card, and we can expect a Rev level soon.
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nakedcellist
Established
So, does this problem occur only with sandisk cards? I use cheap traxdata (class6) and transcend (class10) 16 G cards in my M9 and I haven't had any problems.
The problem seems to occur only with Sandisk cards rated "UHS-1".
I use older Sandisk cards and PNY cards in the M8 and M9, as well as the Ricoh CX-1 and Olympus EP-2. Never had a problem formatting them in the cameras, reformatting them in the cameras after using in a different one, or formatting on a Win7, XP, or WIN2000 machine.
I have been using memory cards, PCMCIA 4MByte Sandisk cards, since the mid 90s. We're talking Kodak DC-50 and Win95 machines. I still use Sandisk PCMCIA cards that are more than 10 years old. I cannot believe that anyone could screw up a memory card so bad that it could not be formatted using the utility from the organization that sets the standards for SD cards.
I use older Sandisk cards and PNY cards in the M8 and M9, as well as the Ricoh CX-1 and Olympus EP-2. Never had a problem formatting them in the cameras, reformatting them in the cameras after using in a different one, or formatting on a Win7, XP, or WIN2000 machine.
I have been using memory cards, PCMCIA 4MByte Sandisk cards, since the mid 90s. We're talking Kodak DC-50 and Win95 machines. I still use Sandisk PCMCIA cards that are more than 10 years old. I cannot believe that anyone could screw up a memory card so bad that it could not be formatted using the utility from the organization that sets the standards for SD cards.