Michael Markey
Veteran
I don`t think that the intention ... it`s certainly not mine ... is to compare the track record of different brands.
I know both Canon and Nikon owners who have had their far share of recurring faults too.
Fuji had to recall their S2Pro model because of faulty Sony sensors so no one is denying that the pain isn`t evenly spread.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
I just had a shutter issue with my Monochrom (see related thread under the Digital Leica M section). Leica NJ is in the process of replacing my shutter, but they have to wait for a supply to come from Wetzlar (actually I just received notification that it's done!). I have to say that they have been very good to me, so no complaints at all with the folks in NJ.
I don't know how many actuations yours has, but I believe that mine has just over 10,000 (I do not use it for professional work). It is a bit disconcerting to me to have shutter trouble with relatively few actuations (I'm comparing it to digital Nikon bodies that I use for professional work that have had over 150,000 actuations without issue), particularly in an $8,000 camera body. This is the thing that causes me definite concern.
I hope that you're able to get everything resolved, and that these recent shutter issues aren't indicative of further troubles down the road.
I don't know how many actuations yours has, but I believe that mine has just over 10,000 (I do not use it for professional work). It is a bit disconcerting to me to have shutter trouble with relatively few actuations (I'm comparing it to digital Nikon bodies that I use for professional work that have had over 150,000 actuations without issue), particularly in an $8,000 camera body. This is the thing that causes me definite concern.
I hope that you're able to get everything resolved, and that these recent shutter issues aren't indicative of further troubles down the road.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Michael,
It's mostly that Leica owners whinge more, because they think their expensive cameras should invariably be perfect. Then there was the chap I knew whose Rolls Royce seized at 10,000 miles as a result of swarf left in the engine.
As the old proverb has it (Persian, I think), to Allah alone belongs perfection.
Cheers,
R.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Dear Roger
I`m sure that plays a part .
I`d not like to give the impression either that I`m in someway risk averse.
Given that my other hobby involves a rather frisky thoroughbred the possible risks associated with owning a digital Leica is rather small beer in my world.
They breakdown with alarming regularity and the cost of fixing them is often severe.
Best
Michael
I`m sure that plays a part .
I`d not like to give the impression either that I`m in someway risk averse.
Given that my other hobby involves a rather frisky thoroughbred the possible risks associated with owning a digital Leica is rather small beer in my world.
They breakdown with alarming regularity and the cost of fixing them is often severe.
Best
Michael
Clark.EE
Well-known
If only a Fuji X would mate with an M8.
Vince Lupo
Whatever
Do Leica owners expect higher standards from Leica? I don't think I'd dispute that. Personally I don't expect the camera to be perfect, but I'd hope that it would be at least as reliable as a camera that's $5000 cheaper and is used a heck of a lot more.
Duane Pandorf
Well-known
I have an M-E with over 24k actuations and have had no issues with shutter, SD cards, etc. I believe the latest software update added a feature that when the camera sensed the battery to be too low that it would shut down.
It wouldn't surprise me that your battery was telling the camera it had enough charge but due to the battery dropping charge quickly stopped the shutter from finishing it actuation.
I have no idea if you were to put a brand new fully charged battery in the camera if it were to start working correctly.
If it were me I'd be buying new battery ASAP whether I was sending the camera in for repair or not. Once it is working correctly you're going to need one anyway.
YYV_146
Well-known
Fuji has had their fair share of issues with cameras. Remember SAB? And the earlier firmware versions of the X-pro1 was buggy as hell.
IMO the bigger the camera maker, the less likely it's going to launch faulty products (if only because they tend to stick with tried-and-tests components). Canon, for example, has less launch issues than Nikon, but also tends to lag in terms of using new technology on their bodies. In this regard Leica is the clear underdog (~4 truly new M-mount bodies in 7 years), especially compared to companies that bring out dozens of models per year.
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
Exactly. With the latest firmware it gives a warning at startup when there is less than 25% left on the battery. Never had any issues with the battery before. Seems strange that it would lose total capacity overnight.
When it happened, I assumed - like you say - that the charge had been cut off in the middle of the shutter cycle, leaving it stuck.
x-ray
Veteran
You and I are in the same boat. We can afford for a piece of gear to breakdown on the job. Clients get unhappy if we're fiddling with equipment when we need to be shooting. I just couldn't trust it after the problems started.
I expect the same out of Canon or Nikon.
for sure the early days of the Nikon D1 were full of problems but they got ironed out fairly quickly. It was never shutter or sensor related but more often firmware.
Back in the late 80's I started using Rollei 3003's with zeiss glass. I have to give it to Rollei for making the most unreliable camera I've ever owned. I had two bodies and six or seven backs and had one body in the shop all the time and a loaner from Rollei. Wonderful concept but terrible execution. I was truly sad to get rid of that system. It had interchangeable backs like a 6008, polaroid back, eye level and WL finders and interchangeable screens and fantastic Zeiss glass.
Number two in the lineup of unreliable gear has been my M9. It's actually close to a tie.
Third was a rented Dycomed scanning back that would work for two hours then go crazy. The problem was never resolved till it was sold.
My best cameras, M film bodies, Nikon film and digital and Canon film and digital.
john neal
fallor ergo sum
My Monochrom shutter failed at less than 1,500 actuations
I guess it is like anything technical in the modern world - there is a "bathtub" curve of failure, whether that is measured as MTTF or MTBF. How many of us have had a new halogen bulb fail in the first half-hour while others go on for years?
Given that the same shutter works well on the R8/9, but fails regularly on M8 and later digital bodies, I would have thought that Leica & Copal would have done some serious root cause analysis and introduced a modified design by now.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Going back to the original request for a DIY fix of a shutter where the front curtain was hung open:
The DIY fix I suggested was shown me by a camera repair tech when the shutter hung on one of my Contax G's. The shutter performed flawlessly for another 4-5 years until I sold the camera. Then I used that same DIY fix on a Zeiss Ikon shutter about 4 years ago. It too has performed flawlessly ever since. I know those shutters are similar and I suspect the same as an M9.
Again, the DIY fix is Charge the low battery, remove the lens and gently push down on the open front shutter curtain with a fingernail or tip of a pen. Frequently this causes the curtain to close and resume working normally. Possibly I should have emphasized that the gentle push DOWN was on the edge of the curtain and towards the bottom of the camera or in the direction the shutter goes when open. It is not pushing in which is impossible anyway as the front shutter curtain is already open.
It is the OP's camera and he should feel free to try or not try the DIY fix. But I do wonder why he asked for a DIY fix if he was unwilling to try. Maybe he wanted a magic incantation instead.
The DIY fix I suggested was shown me by a camera repair tech when the shutter hung on one of my Contax G's. The shutter performed flawlessly for another 4-5 years until I sold the camera. Then I used that same DIY fix on a Zeiss Ikon shutter about 4 years ago. It too has performed flawlessly ever since. I know those shutters are similar and I suspect the same as an M9.
Again, the DIY fix is Charge the low battery, remove the lens and gently push down on the open front shutter curtain with a fingernail or tip of a pen. Frequently this causes the curtain to close and resume working normally. Possibly I should have emphasized that the gentle push DOWN was on the edge of the curtain and towards the bottom of the camera or in the direction the shutter goes when open. It is not pushing in which is impossible anyway as the front shutter curtain is already open.
It is the OP's camera and he should feel free to try or not try the DIY fix. But I do wonder why he asked for a DIY fix if he was unwilling to try. Maybe he wanted a magic incantation instead.
Ronald M
Veteran
The battery likes to be kept topped off full unlike NiCads. Running them down shortens life considerably.
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
Bob, thanks for clarifying the procedure. I did feel the thread went a bit off topic. I'm usually totally up for DIY'ing.
Just to be sure, and for future reference:
Looking at the shutter blades I see five black layered blades with the lower one on the top layer. If I were to try it, would I then have to catch the thin edge of the lower blade with some fine tool and push it downward? Is there not a risk of the shutter blades hitting the tool as they activate and move down? I have quick reflexes, but if it goes off at 1/1000, I'm not fast enough.
Also, would the camera need to be turned on, or does the shutter move by mechanics alone under this procedure?
But before trying something that might void any guarantee left from Leica's last repair, I guess it's prudent to wait for their response.
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
Is this a junk camera that you don't want to spend any money on?? Get thee to Leica repair and have it done right before the thing becomes a paperweight.
raid
Dad Photographer
I had no clue about this fact, Roland. Thanks.
willie_901
Veteran
I wonder how Leica's free or not free repair deciders view DIY attempts?
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
I'm sure they wouldn't look too kindly on a big scratch on the shutter blades.
But if I ever get caught in field having to do an emergency fix, I'd rather have half an idea what to do than none at all.
So thanks to Bob.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
OK. Understand I do not have an M9 but I believe all modern day rangefinders use the same shutter design (purchased as a unit from Copal I believe)
The M9 must have an electronic or electromagnetic shutter not a mechanical one.
There should be two shutter blades. The rear one would be black. The front one would be grey as this is where the TTL metering reads from. The fact that you reference a black shutter is a strong indication that the front or grey shutter is hung open or 98% open.
Never touch the blades of either shutter curtain. They are very fragile. Simply reach a slight ways into the opening with a finger tip and push down gently on the top edge of the front shutter so as to push it fully open. Chances are it will pop right back closed when you release the pressure. That is all there is. If the shutter pops back closed, your DIY has fixed the problem. If not, it is time for someone professional.
Good luck!
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Obvious answer to your question.
What I suggested is no more than a gentle fingertip push on the top of the front shutter curtain to completely close it from its hung position. Absolutely no trace other than the chance of it solving the problem.