m9 vs m6

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Worst of all is when it does something totally unexpected and you spend a week or so trying to sort it out...

Regards, David

 

[nightfly]

I shot an M4-P for many years.

The first shot I took on my M9 my thumb reached for the film advance.

I knew I'd found my digital camera.

The rendering of the CCD sensor is really nice. The camera is slightly thicker and feels heavier. The only reason to use the menu system is to set the ISO (dedicated button combined with arrow).

I haven't touched my M4-P in a long time.

It helps that I was already moving away from black and white to color for the majority of my photography.

Lately I've started playing with Capture One and find it renders the M9's raw files very nicely.

I bought a Fuji XE2 because I wanted a lighter camera for a backpacking trip in the Andes. I fought with it the entire time. Although I like color rendering of Fuji's jpegs (i shoot the M9 RAW), it felt much more like taking photos with a computer than a camera. Sold it quickly. The images, when I got it to stop exposing incorrectly, were lovely but getting them was not.

 

[Fraser]

Hi,

Can't comment on the Fuji but I've noticed that - in the long term - I've sold all my complicated cameras, as the system's menus* get in the way, and kept the straight forward ones. Even to the point where I still have and use an elderly Leica Digilux 2, which is 5 megapixels and ought to be scrapped according to some...

So my votes for the M series.

Regards, David

* Why do they shove so much into the menus? Lots of film cameras survived and became classics with just the simplest of controls (Olympus XA or Konica A4 or Leica mini) or hardly any (Olympus mju's). A simple P&S digital with a decent prime lens would be great and please don't tell me there's one as I can't afford it.

There is quite a lot more to a digital camera than a manual film camera, if menus bother you buy a top end canon or nikon and you will find once the camera is set up you hardly need to go into menus.
Cameras like
Canon t90
Nikon F4
Konica Hexar AF
Without reading the manual have features that are really well hidden, I must admit the fuji x100 can be very frustrating with so many features and options!

 

[______]

I have a Fuji XE2 for shooting digital. The only time I need to go into the menus is to change the minimum shutter speed in Auto ISO when I change lenses. It is the first item in the menu so it is not a challenge. Once you have you camera set up, there is really no reason to be futzing around in the menus. Just turn the back screen off so it doesn't distract you. Then shoot like you shoot film.

 

[mlu19]

I, too, don't understand how menu systems is one of the reasons a camera is kept or let go. If the simplicity of classic film camera is a must, one can simply shoot in manual, and ignore all other extra features modern digital cameras offer.

 

[Duane Pandorf]

I, too, don't understand how menu systems is one of the reasons a camera is kept or let go. If the simplicity of classic film camera is a must, one can simply shoot in manual, and ignore all other extra features modern digital cameras offer.

Completely agree, however, many of today's digital cameras do not have a complete set of external controls to operate the camera manually. I'm not familiar with the Fuji Pro series but it would seem to me the Leica M9 would come closest to having full external manual controls with the exception of ISO.

 

[adamjbonn]

I think if something like

Double overhead highlight retentive face tracking predictive auto focus mode (!! Yes i made that up 🙂 ) is important to a user, then they'll learn how to set it up and quickly know where to find it in the menu

If it's not, just don't use or worry about it

If one isn't fussed about about having a optical VF (and i very much am personally) then a camera like Fuji's XT1/2 has ISO, SS, Aperture, EV, Metering and Drive modes all available from dedicated dials on the top plate. Not only do you not need to menu dive to change those things, but you can even see what they're set too without turning the camera on.

Sure there's a boat load of stuff spread across several menu pages, but those dials on the top are pretty much all one needs for a simplistic experience, so the menu is not a place you have to go too, unless you want to.

My X-Pro2 has a ton of stuff (like AF modes, face detection) that I never use, and don't care about. But their existence within my camera's menu is not abhorrent to me 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

Well, um, er, I've been using digital SLR's from the mid to late 90's and every now and then one of them would do something unexpected, behave differently and, sometimes, a new to me weird icon would appear on screen.

So although in theory they can be set up and left alone, in practice they irritate now and then. Bitter experience (based on 20 years experience) means I never fiddle with the things but it still happens. The M9 or Digilux-2 are best of all but neither are what I'd stick in my pocket everyday when taking the family dogs for a walk. As for the worst, well, I am looking at the X100 but saying nowt...

Regards, David

 

[adamjbonn]

I think every camera has given at least one user a horror story at some stage

 

[xixi_gelly]

But the M9 feels very heavy to me. It might be worth looking at the weights if hauling it (and film) around is a problem. Also, I sometimes think the M9 is not very forgiving, for want of a better word.

Regards, David

Just curious, since I agree with David: Can someone explain why my M9 feels heavier than my M6 when, according to wikipedia, both cameras are specified at 585 grams? In fact the M9 is supposed to be 585g with battery, whereas I'm not sure if the M6 figure includes a roll of film.

Has anyone here actually weighed a M9+card+battery vs the M6+film?

(Fingers crossed for a M6TTL-size and -weight M10 next week. Yes I'm one of _them_)

 

[mlu19]

I currently only shoot M9/M6, can confirm M9 feels heavier according to my hands... Things might change once I get a thumbs up for the M9 since I tend to hold the M6 with the film advance lever.

M9 also feels more like a brick due to its fatter/thicker body.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

That is a relief as I was wondering why it feels heavier but comes in at about the same weight as the film ones. I doubt if we'll ever know why but it's nice to feel I'm not alone.

Regards, David

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I have DSLR which has a lot of menus, yet, I set many things with controls, without menus, screen. But. M9 (M-E in my case) total absence of advanced and deep menus, absence of extra dials and exactly the same bottom plate, very similar frame lines makes it feel as the closest to film M.
Fuji X, Leica M240 don't have this feel. For some it is not important. For me it is main reason why I want to look and feel camera in my hands. Not as advanced image taking tool, but simple, classic Leica M camera.

 

[Rob-F]

Just curious, since I agree with David: Can someone explain why my M9 feels heavier than my M6 when, according to wikipedia, both cameras are specified at 585 grams? In fact the M9 is supposed to be 585g with battery, whereas I'm not sure if the M6 figure includes a roll of film.

Has anyone here actually weighed a M9+card+battery vs the M6+film?

(Fingers crossed for a M6TTL-size and -weight M10 next week. Yes I'm one of _them_)

I think it has to do with visual impressions and expectations. The M9 looks bigger and heavier, so one tends to perceive it that way. One of my psychology professors was experimenting with what he called "visual capture," the tendency for the eyes to overrule the other senses. He made a device that caused a perfectly straight bar to appear bent. When you touched it, it felt bent.

When you look at an M9, it looks heavy, so that's how we experience it. And if the lack of a winding lever makes it feel more awkward in the hand, that could contribute to the impression as well.

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

Been thinking about it;

Digital
most of the time I use a small camera for casual shooting. So no great weight, about 200 to 230 g. and then for serious stuff out comes the M9 or some dSLR. So after the little toy the M9 feels heavy at twice the weight and so does the SLR at 3 times the weight.

Film
A cassette is 24 or 36 frames and so I am using it for longer and get used to the weight of the M2. Unlike the digital I don't take 2 or 3 shots and then put it away and go back to the small one because the film has to be finished.

Hope that makes sense.

Regards, David

 

[Fraser]

An m9 is really not that heavy and the important thing is with a 35mm summicron it's nice and compact, and the great thing is it can be worn under a jacket in all weathers unlike a dslr!

 

[uhoh7]

The M9 is simpler than the M6.

No film to load or mess with after.

You can put the M9 on "A", and shoot all day with only two things to do: pick an aperture, and focus.

And most of the time it works fine. If you do need to fix ISO or shutter, both are very easy and fast.

It is the simplest high end camera ever made. That's why they are still worth so much 🙂

 

[xixi_gelly]

That's fascinating, Rob. Thanks very much for teaching me something new today.

And yes, to the poster who mentioned the 35mm summicron. I think it's the weight of the 35/2 v4, not even so much its "bokeh" rep, that makes it so in demand and keeps its value. Perfect balance on film M's

I think it has to do with visual impressions and expectations. The M9 looks bigger and heavier, so one tends to perceive it that way. One of my psychology professors was experimenting with what he called "visual capture," the tendency for the eyes to overrule the other senses. He made a device that caused a perfectly straight bar to appear bent. When you touched it, it felt bent.

When you look at an M9, it looks heavy, so that's how we experience it. And if the lack of a winding lever makes it feel more awkward in the hand, that could contribute to the impression as well.

 

[David Hughes]

An m9 is really not that heavy and the important thing is with a 35mm summicron it's nice and compact, and the great thing is it can be worn under a jacket in all weathers unlike a dslr!

Hi,

This is a new use of the word 'compact' that I did not know. I am seeing my FED 4 in a new light...

Regards, David

PS But how can I describe my Olympus XA now?

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

It would be nice if I could set up (say) the X100 my way and then save the settings to the SD card, meaning independent of the camera as I could then store it in the computer, and even get a print out of all my settings.

As it is I am planning, when I finally get there, to sit down and write a long, long list of my settings. This is not a problem I have with the M9 or Digilux 2 or mobile.

Regards, David