Magnum Photos website vs Steve Huff blog

[jsrockit]

Anyway, there are good photographers, yes, but the problem is no one gives a damn about them, and everyone is busy sucking up to Steve or Ken or Kai or some other hack gear reviewer.

Perhaps people come here for their gear news and go elsewhere to look at photos (like galleries, books, museums, etc.)? I tend to find that when someone trys to make a thread about a photographer here that it turns into a thread where many have a problem with the photographer.

 

[emraphoto]

Pictures of pets can be an important part of serious art or documentary work. Look at William Wegman's work. The man is famous for his photographs of dogs.

Over the years, I spent a lot of time photographing my grandfather. I made countless photographs of his dog and cats, because they were so important to him, and had such interesting lives themselves.

THe dog walked into the kitchen, looked around to be sure no one was watching (I guess I didn't count!), then jumped up and stole a piece of meat from the plate on the counter!

This one was made a few months before grandpa died from Alzheimer's Disease.

Chris, i admire your use of photography to share your life with us all. brave is the only word i can think of

 

[fstops]

I am not defending either one, but at the end of the day this generation want face behind the words and pictures to interact with, and this is why Steve does well. The average person (not Leica people) can relate to Steve and the pictures he takes. Put simply, Magnum needs to do more social networking and give people access to communicate with their photographers more....but then again, maybe they only care about the photography 😉

People are not interested in photographs, people are interested in photography gear.

By people, I mean your average person with a camera and lenses who considers photography a hobby or a job (even if not paid for it) or an art.


Its basically as simple as that. If people were interested in photographs the Magnum website would have had a thriving "online community" and lots of traffic and comments, but instead people are reading what Steve thinks of a new compact camera and whet Ken thinks of legacy Leica lenses and why Kai thinks you should use a 50mm lens...

If an activity is judged by its opinion leaders, Steve, Ken and Kai make for a sobering trio of opinion leaders when it comes to photography.


I feel nauseated by all the gear obsession, starting with myself and then seeing it in others. For me gear obsession is a simple symptom of lack of creativity and ideas because every time I cannot take pictures for lack of motivation or good ideas I begin to lust after gear. But then why post this here in a gear-orientated forum? As someone said in a different thread writing makes one's ideas clear and this thread has already helped me.

 

[moreammo]

I like Gear, i'll freely admit that. I like Steves site too. I really enjoy the "Daily" inspiration that he posts from his readers. many of those are quite enjoyable. i also like to read about gear but i mainly go to his sight to see if a daily inspiration was posted recently. I take a TON of photos of my 2 month old and I use the best gear i can get my hands on to photograph my 15 year old Cattle dog. These are all things i love. I am not a professional photographer, obviously, but i have done some paid assignments. nothing near what John has done. Some commercial work and some private stuff, portraits, weddings... blah. i don't enjoy doing that stuff. I enjoy taking photos of my family and friends and reading how others are enjoying photography. Certainly Magnum provides a place to look at some really cool work but you don't have the opportunity to discuss with the person who took it, which i enjoy.

Here a couple of my recent shots that I enjoy 🙂

Notice my Dad's Gear in photo and My Dog 🙂 Maybe you're correct but i'm enjoying myself, i think others are too.

 

[Jubb Jubb]

People are not interested in photographs, people are interested in photography gear.

By people, I mean your average person with a camera and lenses who considers photography a hobby or a job (even if not paid for it) or an art.


Its basically as simple as that. If people were interested in photographs the Magnum website would have had a thriving "online community" and lots of traffic and comments, but instead people are reading what Steve thinks of a new compact camera and whet Ken thinks of legacy Leica lenses and why Kai thinks you should use a 50mm lens...
writing makes one's ideas clear and this thread has already helped me.

<slaps palm in face> yep. you keep thinking that buddy.

 

[leicashot]

Agree 110%, well spoken

People are not interested in photographs, people are interested in photography gear.

By people, I mean your average person with a camera and lenses who considers photography a hobby or a job (even if not paid for it) or an art.


Its basically as simple as that. If people were interested in photographs the Magnum website would have had a thriving "online community" and lots of traffic and comments, but instead people are reading what Steve thinks of a new compact camera and whet Ken thinks of legacy Leica lenses and why Kai thinks you should use a 50mm lens...

If an activity is judged by its opinion leaders, Steve, Ken and Kai make for a sobering trio of opinion leaders when it comes to photography.


I feel nauseated by all the gear obsession, starting with myself and then seeing it in others. For me gear obsession is a simple symptom of lack of creativity and ideas because every time I cannot take pictures for lack of motivation or good ideas I begin to lust after gear. But then why post this here in a gear-orientated forum? As someone said in a different thread writing makes one's ideas clear and this thread has already helped me.

 

[emraphoto]

People are not interested in photographs, people are interested in photography gear.

By people, I mean your average person with a camera and lenses who considers photography a hobby or a job (even if not paid for it) or an art.


Its basically as simple as that. If people were interested in photographs the Magnum website would have had a thriving "online community" and lots of traffic and comments, but instead people are reading what Steve thinks of a new compact camera and whet Ken thinks of legacy Leica lenses and why Kai thinks you should use a 50mm lens...

If an activity is judged by its opinion leaders, Steve, Ken and Kai make for a sobering trio of opinion leaders when it comes to photography.


I feel nauseated by all the gear obsession, starting with myself and then seeing it in others. For me gear obsession is a simple symptom of lack of creativity and ideas because every time I cannot take pictures for lack of motivation or good ideas I begin to lust after gear. But then why post this here in a gear-orientated forum? As someone said in a different thread writing makes one's ideas clear and this thread has already helped me.

this is a far more frank and admirable statement/position. i can echo some of those frustrations although i can't agree with photography being dead.

it (gear obsession) is a frustrating phenomenon as i believe it creates stumbling blocks for people. constantly i hear students claiming they can't get to where they want to be as they can't afford certain gear. what is worse is some of the schools here re-enforce this position.

as others have said, i think the folks really knee deep in creating photographs aren't spending much time in this internet world. i think this is because most of us learn from folks like Bill Pierce... the real magic starts happening when you realize good photography has little to do with gear.

 

[emraphoto]

PS i find Steve Huff a fine fella and some friends of mine, very common names in the photo making world, speak well of his site. strange but true

 

[furcafe]

As others have already pointed out, your comparison is flawed because the Magnum web site is not set up to be an "online community" (also, unless you have access to their stats, you have no idea how much traffic their site gets). Same goes for VII's site. When I think of general interest online photo communities, sites like flickr, 500px, etc. come to mind, not dpreview or "Steve, Ken and Kai."

You are correct that a lot of people who are into photography are gearheads, but that's always been true since photography requires equipment to begin with & camera companies are in the business of selling cameras. I don't know how old you are, but all you have to do is go to a library or online & look at some old copies of Popular Photography, etc. from the pre-internet era (which really wasn't that long ago) & the vast majority of articles will be camera reviews & the like. And I can tell you the vast majority of photography magazines that you would see at a typical bookstore or newsstand were like that, not ones devoted to photography as an art.

People are not interested in photographs, people are interested in photography gear.

By people, I mean your average person with a camera and lenses who considers photography a hobby or a job (even if not paid for it) or an art.


Its basically as simple as that. If people were interested in photographs the Magnum website would have had a thriving "online community" and lots of traffic and comments, but instead people are reading what Steve thinks of a new compact camera and whet Ken thinks of legacy Leica lenses and why Kai thinks you should use a 50mm lens...

If an activity is judged by its opinion leaders, Steve, Ken and Kai make for a sobering trio of opinion leaders when it comes to photography.


I feel nauseated by all the gear obsession, starting with myself and then seeing it in others. For me gear obsession is a simple symptom of lack of creativity and ideas because every time I cannot take pictures for lack of motivation or good ideas I begin to lust after gear. But then why post this here in a gear-orientated forum? As someone said in a different thread writing makes one's ideas clear and this thread has already helped me.

 

[fstops]

As digital cameras replaced film cameras, IT - computer people replaced the typical "art" type as the average "enthusiast" user. The working photographer who was a film user made the change and kept up, as it was necessary to pay the bills. Many of us work with both film and digital media, usually to the dismay of the digital-phile.

A famous, well known, photographer who does a yearly workshop complained recently of all the IT people with cameras and disposable incomes attending his workshops. He said that they weren't fun any more and that the learning process and exchange of ideas was lost. He now requires a portfolio presentation before accepting a workshop student - problem solved.

Your friend at least has the luxury of going through portfolios, if you apply for a Magnum workshop you'd be accepted even if you don't know anything about photography. This is for the simple economic reasons because workshops are the only source of revenue left for Magnum.

And speaking of workshops, there is another famous online photography personality called Eric Kim who started photography in 2007. With his smarts and "social media" skills now he travels all over the world and offers workshops. He calls himself an international street photographer (http://erickimphotography.com).

I can also assure you that Eric Kim makes more money in workshops than a few Magnum guys put together!

How this madness came to be?


We can blame it on IT types finding a cheap "creativity outlet" in photography and so on, but the bottom line is that it is the camera makers who want to sell and our desire to buy that has made photography into a joke and a sick patient that it is today.

Can we change? I don't think so, its too late.

 

[Out to Lunch]

I don't agree with the OP's conclusion (gearheads vs. art with a Capital A). Huff is keeping his site alive and he communicates with his readers. The Magnum site has been static for many years... some say dead as a doornail -as a fair number of its illustrious members.

 

[Paul Luscher]

Well, about the only comment I could make on the Magnum site would be: "I'm not worthy!"

 

[Turtle]

Why are we comparing the number of comments on the two sites rather than the number of hits?

Gear and the overwhelming, passionate pursuit of photography have relatively little overlap in terms of interest. People browsing the two sites are not always from the same pool.

Photography is definitely not dead. IMHO it is healthier than it has ever been. Digital equipment has created such VAST access to photography that equipment heavy forums are all over the place. Just look at the endless list of digital photography magazines! The end result, however, is the production of photographs, which is photography.... and as always, not all of it is good.

I visit Magnum and various other sites regularly but don't comment. I do comment here lots, yet I am the same person 😉 What does that tell you? only that I visit the two types of site for very different reasons. A related point is that the more my photos sell for and the better the exhibition venues, the fewer people ask what equipment I used.... The paucity of blog postings an internet fanfare does not mean that exhibitions and a healthy photography culture does not exist!

 

[fstops]

You are correct that a lot of people who are into photography are gearheads, but that's always been true...

I don't think its even possible to compare the past of photography to today.

In the past year more cameras and lenses were released than some decades of the past put together. And I'm not talking about consumer compacts, I'm taking about interchangeable systems with lenses.

Where is the demand coming for all these cameras? Pro photographers? Not really, its all amateurs with cash or credit cards.

 

[fstops]

Irrespective of personal opinions, if we don't acknowledge that gear has become a sort of cancer to our own creativity, let alone photography at large then we're deceiving ourselves.


Here is one small step that might help:

-Next time you see a guy/girl with a camera trying to be a photographer, don't ask him what camera or lens(es) his using, ask him if he has some example of his work on him. And carry a sample of your own work with you.

 

[furcafe]

Not only is it possible, but I am doing it right now & I think it's the same old story. 😉

Yes, more cameras are coming out all the time (although I think you just don't know about all of the weird cameras, lenses, & films that were introduced back in the day & quickly died--110, Disc, Kodak instant). The very simple answer to your question is that the demand for all these fancy new cameras is from people who want to take better photos than they're currently taking w/point & shoots or their iPhones. Why is that a problem?

As Turtle just pointed out, more gear just means more (mostly bad) photos. But most photos have always been taken by amateurs, not pros or artists, & most photos have always been taken for personal, non-artistic reasons, like recording family celebrations (awkward or otherwise), etc. Why does one type of photography preclude the other?

Pros & other "serious" photographers should thank amateurs & their credit cards because they're the people who subsidize all the cool technological advances that help them do new things that HC-B & the like would have killed for (super high ISOs, fast autofocus, etc.).

I don't think its even possible to compare the past of photography to today.

In the past year more cameras and lenses were released than some decades of the past put together. And I'm not talking about consumer compacts, I'm taking about interchangeable systems with lenses.

Where is the demand coming for all these cameras? Pro photographers? Not really, its all amateurs with cash or credit cards.

 

[brbo]

Next time you see a guy/girl with a camera trying to be a photographer, don't ask him what camera or lens(es) his using, ask him if he has some example of his work on him. And carry a sample of your own work with you.

where can we see your work?

 

[fstops]

The only way to really counter the "I have a camera, I'm a photographer" phenomenon is by asking people to show their work on the streets.

Not to humiliate them or anything but simply to reaffirm that pictures are more important than the gear and also to encourage people to make good photos because they never know who will ask for them.

 

[fstops]

As I was replying to this thread and talking about camera releases a new Sony Nex camera was announced with a few from Canon.

And by the Photokina that everyone is looking forward to like Christmas there will be 20 more and many more lenses.

Not only is it possible, but I am doing it right now & it's the same old story. 😉

Yes, more cameras are coming out all the time (although I think you just don't know about all of the weird cameras, lenses, & films that were introduced back in the day & quickly died--110, Disc, Kodak instant). The very simple answer to your question is that the demand for all these fancy new cameras is from people who want to take better photos than they're currently taking w/point & shoots or their iPhones. Why is that a problem?

As Turtle just pointed out, more gear just means more (mostly bad) photos. But most photos have always been taken by amateurs, not pros or artists, & most photos have always been taken for personal, non-artistic reasons, like recording family celebrations (awkward or otherwise), etc. Why does one type of photography preclude the other?

Pros & other "serious" photographers should thank amateurs & their credit cards because they're the people who subsidize all the cool technological advances that help them do new things that HC-B & the like would have killed for (super high ISOs, fast autofocus, etc.).

 

[fstops]

where can we see your work?

Showing your work on the internet is useless, show prints in real life face-to-face and then that is a measure of skill.

And that is what I'm asking for. Ask people for their work in real life situations.

Print is the final product.