N.delaRua
Well-known
I just need to post this rant for some feedback to make sure I am not crazy....
I'll just state it off the bat... I am tired of waiting. I am tired of waiting for a digital camera that checks every box of my unrealistic desires. For the first time in sometime, I have found a digital camera that I have GAS for, the Fuji X100. It appears to meet many of my unrealistic desires both in form and factor.
I am just soooo torn. I have an M6 TTL with a 50 DR and 90 Rokkor. I have an FM2 with a 20 mm. I do not just love both cameras, I worship them. They have taught me more about photography with their simplicity than anything else. There is always just composition and exposure. Thats it, and I feel that is all there should ever be, composition and exposure.
However, and this is a big however, I just am struggling to afford shooting film on the local level. I really am starting to miss my hobby and passion. Rolls of film stack up before I can pay for development, scanning, and purchase more film. I hate it. I want to shoot all the time, everything, everyday.
Thus, I am at the crossroads. I could buy my first digital camera for a hefty sum of $1200 plus dollars, but be able to shoot everyday at no expense, and get cheap prints, but that would mean parting ways with one of my babies and I just can't do it.
It seems to me that the Fuji has some real life in it. In other words, I don't see the performance being so outclassed in the future that i will need to replace it soon. It also seems to have a pretty tough body. Shooting at 3200 at f/2 is pretty much my limit with the M6 and Tmax or illford. Sounds great. The high iso and low iso performance appear stellar, and at 12 mp hopefully my keeper shots won't eat my harddisk in one week. It also has a fixed prime lens. I think thats great. I usually only shoot my 50 mm or 20 mm, and focus on composition and exposure. A 35 mm is right smack dab in the middle... I usually travel with one lens, one body, one film and work within those confines. I find it liberating.
I just can't party ways with my film cameras because its an addiction. I don't know if I am crazy or delusional but I see differences between film and digital shots. I love film, I love the smell of film, I love that its analog, I love that its more than 0's and 1's, I love the mechanical nature and precision of my cameras, I love the physical experience of loading and rewinding film.
But I just can't afford $40 worth of development, scanning, and film purchases every week....
I'll just state it off the bat... I am tired of waiting. I am tired of waiting for a digital camera that checks every box of my unrealistic desires. For the first time in sometime, I have found a digital camera that I have GAS for, the Fuji X100. It appears to meet many of my unrealistic desires both in form and factor.
I am just soooo torn. I have an M6 TTL with a 50 DR and 90 Rokkor. I have an FM2 with a 20 mm. I do not just love both cameras, I worship them. They have taught me more about photography with their simplicity than anything else. There is always just composition and exposure. Thats it, and I feel that is all there should ever be, composition and exposure.
However, and this is a big however, I just am struggling to afford shooting film on the local level. I really am starting to miss my hobby and passion. Rolls of film stack up before I can pay for development, scanning, and purchase more film. I hate it. I want to shoot all the time, everything, everyday.
Thus, I am at the crossroads. I could buy my first digital camera for a hefty sum of $1200 plus dollars, but be able to shoot everyday at no expense, and get cheap prints, but that would mean parting ways with one of my babies and I just can't do it.
It seems to me that the Fuji has some real life in it. In other words, I don't see the performance being so outclassed in the future that i will need to replace it soon. It also seems to have a pretty tough body. Shooting at 3200 at f/2 is pretty much my limit with the M6 and Tmax or illford. Sounds great. The high iso and low iso performance appear stellar, and at 12 mp hopefully my keeper shots won't eat my harddisk in one week. It also has a fixed prime lens. I think thats great. I usually only shoot my 50 mm or 20 mm, and focus on composition and exposure. A 35 mm is right smack dab in the middle... I usually travel with one lens, one body, one film and work within those confines. I find it liberating.
I just can't party ways with my film cameras because its an addiction. I don't know if I am crazy or delusional but I see differences between film and digital shots. I love film, I love the smell of film, I love that its analog, I love that its more than 0's and 1's, I love the mechanical nature and precision of my cameras, I love the physical experience of loading and rewinding film.
But I just can't afford $40 worth of development, scanning, and film purchases every week....
alexnotalex
Well-known
Listen to your heart, digital won't tick the boxes.
sell the FM2, buy a wide for the M6 and shoot less, or dev your own.
sell the FM2, buy a wide for the M6 and shoot less, or dev your own.
N.delaRua
Well-known
Good point on the home development. Small upfront cost, big long term saving. I only have experience with B&W and I do like to shoot the new color C-41's like Portra and so forth...
DamenS
Well-known
I feel your pain, but have no answers as I am in a similar quandary.
Your heart says film, your head says digital. Home development of B/W would be easy(ish) and relatively cheap, but it's still far from free and you shoot colour which really need more temperature control - film is also expensive.
You could buy your own scanner for less than a Fuji x-100 (something like an Epson v-700 or a dedicated 35mm scanner if you don't shood medium/large format), but this also takes up more time and you still need the film/chemicals.
Personally, I think you've answered your own question. If you cant afford $40 per week and that's what you need to get the photos you want with film, then it is time to get a digital. You won't love it as much, but being able to take all the photos you want is probably more important than the slight differences in results and "feeling".
Your heart says film, your head says digital. Home development of B/W would be easy(ish) and relatively cheap, but it's still far from free and you shoot colour which really need more temperature control - film is also expensive.
You could buy your own scanner for less than a Fuji x-100 (something like an Epson v-700 or a dedicated 35mm scanner if you don't shood medium/large format), but this also takes up more time and you still need the film/chemicals.
Personally, I think you've answered your own question. If you cant afford $40 per week and that's what you need to get the photos you want with film, then it is time to get a digital. You won't love it as much, but being able to take all the photos you want is probably more important than the slight differences in results and "feeling".
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Depending on which dollar you're talking about, $40/week is $2000/year or an M9 in under 4 years...
Depending, of course, on whether (a) you have a suitable computer and (b) how many prints you make.
Cheers,
R.
Depending, of course, on whether (a) you have a suitable computer and (b) how many prints you make.
Cheers,
R.
Messsucherkamera
Established
Don't do something you will come to regret
Don't do something you will come to regret
N.delaRua -
A few observations. All are just my opinion, but I hope you will give them some thought.
1: DO NOT sell your M6, FM2 and lenses!
It is obvious that you have a deep passion for these wondrous little machines as well as the film based photographic process as a whole. If you part with your film cameras, you will ultimately regret doing so. You will agonize over the loss of your true love - film based photography - and the tools that allow you to pursue that passion.
So - what to do?? Here are some ideas to consider -
* Buy the tools you need for black and white film developing. It is an extremely simple process. It is economical - it costs me about $0.40US per 36 exposure roll to develop B&W. Look for used film tanks, reels, changing bags, thermometers, etc. If you can find them up for sale, you will likely be able to buy them dirt cheap.
* Look for a used enlarger. They can be bought for not alot of money; sometimes you can get them for free, believe it or not. Look for used print trays, enlarging easel and an enlarger lens. If you shop hard, you can get set up to do your own developing and printing for (I'm guessing here) 1/3 the cost of the Fuji digital camera.
* Find a way to pay for film, chemistry and printing paper; I don't know what your situation is, but you might consider picking up a part time job. Working one day a week (or two half days) would pay for at least some of your photo supplies. You might also give some thought to using your cameras to make some money, if you are comfortable with doing that and feel up to the task in terms of photographic skills.
The above suggestions also apply to paying for the Fuji camera, if you decide to go that rooute. You might also look for a used Canao G10 or G11. The G12 is out now, and you might be able to pick up a G10 or G11 for a reasonable price.
Whatever you decide, the object of the game here is to (1.) be able to photograph more often and (2.) keep your film cameras.
Digital images have a homogenized. plastic like look to them that is the result of not having the grain that silver based photographs have. Some photographers manipulate their digital images to the point that the color balance looks unnatural, manipulated and contrived. Some HDR digital photos are so uniform in exposure that there are no shadows or highlights - again rendering an unnatural, contrived look.
Everyone is entitled to photograph as they choose and to print as they choose. As for me, I choose the process and visual fingerprint of film based photography.
I hope these suggestions will serve as food for thought. Best of luck and keep us posted on what you decide to do.
Don't do something you will come to regret
N.delaRua -
A few observations. All are just my opinion, but I hope you will give them some thought.
1: DO NOT sell your M6, FM2 and lenses!
It is obvious that you have a deep passion for these wondrous little machines as well as the film based photographic process as a whole. If you part with your film cameras, you will ultimately regret doing so. You will agonize over the loss of your true love - film based photography - and the tools that allow you to pursue that passion.
So - what to do?? Here are some ideas to consider -
* Buy the tools you need for black and white film developing. It is an extremely simple process. It is economical - it costs me about $0.40US per 36 exposure roll to develop B&W. Look for used film tanks, reels, changing bags, thermometers, etc. If you can find them up for sale, you will likely be able to buy them dirt cheap.
* Look for a used enlarger. They can be bought for not alot of money; sometimes you can get them for free, believe it or not. Look for used print trays, enlarging easel and an enlarger lens. If you shop hard, you can get set up to do your own developing and printing for (I'm guessing here) 1/3 the cost of the Fuji digital camera.
* Find a way to pay for film, chemistry and printing paper; I don't know what your situation is, but you might consider picking up a part time job. Working one day a week (or two half days) would pay for at least some of your photo supplies. You might also give some thought to using your cameras to make some money, if you are comfortable with doing that and feel up to the task in terms of photographic skills.
The above suggestions also apply to paying for the Fuji camera, if you decide to go that rooute. You might also look for a used Canao G10 or G11. The G12 is out now, and you might be able to pick up a G10 or G11 for a reasonable price.
Whatever you decide, the object of the game here is to (1.) be able to photograph more often and (2.) keep your film cameras.
You are not crazy or delusional - you have a discerning eye in terms of photographic vision. I can see the difference too - although nor many people can these days.
Digital images have a homogenized. plastic like look to them that is the result of not having the grain that silver based photographs have. Some photographers manipulate their digital images to the point that the color balance looks unnatural, manipulated and contrived. Some HDR digital photos are so uniform in exposure that there are no shadows or highlights - again rendering an unnatural, contrived look.
Everyone is entitled to photograph as they choose and to print as they choose. As for me, I choose the process and visual fingerprint of film based photography.
I hope these suggestions will serve as food for thought. Best of luck and keep us posted on what you decide to do.
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Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Digital has little to do with camera function IMO. I like digital and use it happily but now and then I look at an image I've taken with black and white film and it just breathes life ... the light, the grain, make me stare and wonder where that 'life' comes from.
I have yet to experience that with a digitally captured image.
It's never about the camera!
I have yet to experience that with a digitally captured image.
It's never about the camera!
bulevardi
Established
First of all, don't sell your actual cameras and lenses, yet. It could be an impulsive decision.
Second: that Fuji X100 seems a really nice camera, mechanical look and feel.
But it seems you cannot change lenses on this one? So for future lenses on that camera... you're stuck.
Second: that Fuji X100 seems a really nice camera, mechanical look and feel.
But it seems you cannot change lenses on this one? So for future lenses on that camera... you're stuck.
bulevardi
Established
If Nikon would make such a mechanical body design, I'd buy it.
Just because I already have Nikkor lenses that would fit, and my almost 10-year old digital body doesn't satisfy my needs anymore.
Just because I already have Nikkor lenses that would fit, and my almost 10-year old digital body doesn't satisfy my needs anymore.
Teuthida
Well-known
Compromise. Sell the m6 and buy an M8. keep the nikon for film. If you do 't like the m8 you can always sell it and buy another M6.
I love the M8. Great camera that meets a lot of the tactile pleasures of a film camera and a Leica at that.
I love the M8. Great camera that meets a lot of the tactile pleasures of a film camera and a Leica at that.
dave lackey
Veteran
Are you a hobbyist? Or do you actually sell your work and make some money from it? If a hobbyist and the difference in images is no big deal, go digital.
If, otoh, you do see the difference and it makes a lot of sense to go with the film images, then dammit find a way to make your hard work pay for the film and developing or at least the film and process your own!
It is really that simple.:angel: I have sold every digital camera I have owned over the last 12 years and now have only film cameras for my professional work. See? Not such a difficult decision once your understand what your photography is all about which is tough because you have to understand the most difficult subject of all...yourself. NOT what we tell you about film or digital. Such BS. It took awhile for me to figure myself out and some of it I did not find that I liked myself at all. But, I have found my niche with black and white film images.
I will be going back to digital soon enough only because of a large upcoming project that requires color. For that, I will use a digital M body. Just fit the tools with your tasks.
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Ducky
Well-known
You can spend less than $100 on a pretty good digital p&s to see if the instant gratification and digi look works for you. Some give a pretty good image. If the digi process feel good, then go for something better.
btgc
Veteran
Sub-$100 digital does exactly what it costs. Yes, pictures make photographers not gear, but there's some difference between drinking water and wine
I mean, focal length, lens, controls, sensor and materials in cheapo camera are diffrent than in those who are built for photographers. It just can not give impression of what good digital cmera is capable. Just the fact of instant picture.To replace my film kit with digital and retain same capabilities, I have to spend a lot more than I spent. Good digital isn't exactly free.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I'm at the point of unloading all my old Nikon SLR gear (not used any more) and getting a Fuji X10 for travel, family and general colour work. Colour film and processing can get expensive and it's not my main interest area anyway.
I'm keeping my M6 for B&W and I do my own developing. I do have a darkroom but I also have a dust problem at the moment so I'm scanning and printing the B&W using an Epson V700 and Epson R2880 and up to 11x14 I'm very happy with the results. And you know what? I might be able to tell the difference but the people to whom I show the prints have no idea how they were printed - and wouldn't care.
A lot of photographers get themselves in a lather about the perceived differences between traditional prints and digital prints but the gap has closed to a remarkable extent and it is now more of an "insider" thing. To most people it just doesn't matter!
I'm keeping my M6 for B&W and I do my own developing. I do have a darkroom but I also have a dust problem at the moment so I'm scanning and printing the B&W using an Epson V700 and Epson R2880 and up to 11x14 I'm very happy with the results. And you know what? I might be able to tell the difference but the people to whom I show the prints have no idea how they were printed - and wouldn't care.
A lot of photographers get themselves in a lather about the perceived differences between traditional prints and digital prints but the gap has closed to a remarkable extent and it is now more of an "insider" thing. To most people it just doesn't matter!
btgc
Veteran
That's very true, but most of people also do not care if they drink clean organically grown coffee or sprayed with strong insecticides and some drink instant coffee.
I think, it's clearly a photographer's issue not a viewers or buyers. To them it just doesn't matter!
jmc56
Member
I like to shoot. I like film and I like digital. I use both, but mostly digital and it all ends up digital in the end, i.e. the film is scanned.
I don't particularly enjoy lab work (It was different when I shot film for a living many years ago) so the extent of it now is B&W film processing with the results scanned in. The irony is that I collect royalties on occasion for digitalized B&W shot decades ago. Digital is frequently a requirement, usually preferred.
I wouldn't take issue with anyone who prefers film (or ONLY film). But fwiw digital does things today that I could only dream of during the 60s-- and that would have been a critical asset. Example is the high ISO and ability to easily shoot in light levels too low for film- and with reasonably high quality.
One reason i use film is that I collect cameras that I make it a point to use. Gets harder all the time yet they have to be exercised. It usually renews my love for film. As for cameras, I've been fortunate. I have some fine 120s and a lot of different 35s, my favorite obsession is the Leicas, in particular the LTMs. More modern RFs, e.g. my M6 TTL, are a real pleasure to use.
Not long ago, I added a Leica M9 P and I also have a Fuji x100. My primary digital is a Canon 5D II. Each is a class of excellence by themselves. The 5D2 has unique capabilities, but it can be heavy for travel, especial since I recently had a cervical triple fusion. I love the M9, but I learned the hard way that Leica is a cult object to thieves. So the Fuji x100 is a first class knock around camera despite its lack of interchangeable lenses. It is a bit eccentric in places but not enough to disturb me. The sensor is big enough (APS C) that I don't feel the compromise I would with the 4/3rds system or the added weight of the full size sensors. It is a sweet camera with a lot of manual controls. Not strictly an RF. I also have a Canon S90 I've used as a knock around and it works well in tandem with the Fuji.
I used to carry a film camera for travel fun, but security got so crazy, I got tired of the hassle.
Sorry about the recitation of cameras, but what I practice might take sense for you if you can keep the filters and add a digital. I personally ilke the x100 a lot, but you might want to use one first if you can. As for cost, film has gotten expensive and scarce. Digital cards can be reused for a long time. Prints will cost, whether you print or someone else does. But digital display, while not at all the same, can be satisfying and read a larger group.
I especially like the suggestion you undertake B&W film processing. It cuts costs, especially if you can learn to edit film, i.e. make print selections. Scanning is of course the easiest solution, and you may find it attractive. It probably lets you keep your feet in the film camp and digital. Just enjoy it.
I don't particularly enjoy lab work (It was different when I shot film for a living many years ago) so the extent of it now is B&W film processing with the results scanned in. The irony is that I collect royalties on occasion for digitalized B&W shot decades ago. Digital is frequently a requirement, usually preferred.
I wouldn't take issue with anyone who prefers film (or ONLY film). But fwiw digital does things today that I could only dream of during the 60s-- and that would have been a critical asset. Example is the high ISO and ability to easily shoot in light levels too low for film- and with reasonably high quality.
One reason i use film is that I collect cameras that I make it a point to use. Gets harder all the time yet they have to be exercised. It usually renews my love for film. As for cameras, I've been fortunate. I have some fine 120s and a lot of different 35s, my favorite obsession is the Leicas, in particular the LTMs. More modern RFs, e.g. my M6 TTL, are a real pleasure to use.
Not long ago, I added a Leica M9 P and I also have a Fuji x100. My primary digital is a Canon 5D II. Each is a class of excellence by themselves. The 5D2 has unique capabilities, but it can be heavy for travel, especial since I recently had a cervical triple fusion. I love the M9, but I learned the hard way that Leica is a cult object to thieves. So the Fuji x100 is a first class knock around camera despite its lack of interchangeable lenses. It is a bit eccentric in places but not enough to disturb me. The sensor is big enough (APS C) that I don't feel the compromise I would with the 4/3rds system or the added weight of the full size sensors. It is a sweet camera with a lot of manual controls. Not strictly an RF. I also have a Canon S90 I've used as a knock around and it works well in tandem with the Fuji.
I used to carry a film camera for travel fun, but security got so crazy, I got tired of the hassle.
Sorry about the recitation of cameras, but what I practice might take sense for you if you can keep the filters and add a digital. I personally ilke the x100 a lot, but you might want to use one first if you can. As for cost, film has gotten expensive and scarce. Digital cards can be reused for a long time. Prints will cost, whether you print or someone else does. But digital display, while not at all the same, can be satisfying and read a larger group.
I especially like the suggestion you undertake B&W film processing. It cuts costs, especially if you can learn to edit film, i.e. make print selections. Scanning is of course the easiest solution, and you may find it attractive. It probably lets you keep your feet in the film camp and digital. Just enjoy it.
N.delaRua
Well-known
A lot of great posts here. Let me state that I am not a professional by trade. I have in the past made a decent amount of revenue from photography when I pursued that type of business more when I was younger, but I did not enjoy the professional aspect of working for a client. I shot for a couple of drama production studios, weddings, and portraiture. I was too young to understand a business transaction.
Currently, I would like to think of my photography in a couple of ways. I love street photography, and I attempt to take pictures that have some intrigue that may bridge the art gap. I also study a parasitic disease, I am a student, and when I travel I try to document from a a very human level the people we are aiming to study. These images are often used in acquiring future grants, books, publications. I do not profit financially, but do so personally. Finally, there is my personal photography that may not have any substance to the rest of the world but does to me.
One day, I will acquire an enlarger, but currently I do not have the means to support the space. Rent for a graduate student comes out to half of my salary before expenses. I should have already bought a development tank, and chemicals. I have a good amount of experience developing and printing B&W. That is one means of reducing cost, and I need to pull the trigger.
I'm sticking with film. One day, and maybe one day in the not to near future, I will hopefully have a job, and the first present i will buy myself will be my first digital camera. I can wait because I still love what comes out of my M6 and FM2.
Currently, I would like to think of my photography in a couple of ways. I love street photography, and I attempt to take pictures that have some intrigue that may bridge the art gap. I also study a parasitic disease, I am a student, and when I travel I try to document from a a very human level the people we are aiming to study. These images are often used in acquiring future grants, books, publications. I do not profit financially, but do so personally. Finally, there is my personal photography that may not have any substance to the rest of the world but does to me.
One day, I will acquire an enlarger, but currently I do not have the means to support the space. Rent for a graduate student comes out to half of my salary before expenses. I should have already bought a development tank, and chemicals. I have a good amount of experience developing and printing B&W. That is one means of reducing cost, and I need to pull the trigger.
I'm sticking with film. One day, and maybe one day in the not to near future, I will hopefully have a job, and the first present i will buy myself will be my first digital camera. I can wait because I still love what comes out of my M6 and FM2.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
If you love shooting film, you have to make the effort to push that cost down.
Getting a used film scanner will save you in the long run. Also developing yourself.
Buy film in bulk to push the cost further. I'd be switching to digital too if I had to pay that much per week
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
If you love shooting film, you have to make the effort to push that cost down.
Getting a used film scanner will save you in the long run. Also developing yourself.
Buy film in bulk to push the cost further. I'd be switching to digital too if I had to pay that much per week
I completely agree with Will here. If I had to pay the going retail prices for my film shooting habits I wouldn't be doing it.
Haigh
Gary Haigh
If it helps, like others here I process my own film and then scan it. I shoot both digital and film. Last October I shot only film in Paris and left my digital stuff at home.