Making Kiev smooth and quiet

[varjag]

Being inspired by the recent discussion on feel of different age Kievs, last night I dismantled my 1976 4A. It's been working fine, although to my experience sutter release and film advance wasn't as soft as on earlier Kievs, plus the shutter has more noticeable snap. After winding/firing the shutter and observing the gearwork, think I spotted at least three problem zones:

1. The aluminium curtain hold lever (the one engaging with the small tabs in the middle of curtain's edge). Its spring-loaded shoulder which transfers the action from release button is bent insufficiently, resulting in some wiggle space.

2. The winding limb mechanism has that notch and tooth coupling, which engages the shutter cocking at appropriate moment. The tooth is poorly finished, so it results is some grindy action during engagement.

3. The tension/resistance of the upper curtain drum feels a bit excessive.

It is interesting that my initial expectation was poor match and finish of cogwheels, which doesn't seem to be the case: they appear to work fairly smoothly.

As of the shutter sound, the snap comes from lower curtain edges hitting the bottom of the crate. This perhaps can be dampened by a bit of foam (just got some from Aki Asahi), though it is interesting to know why older Kievs are more silent.. any insights?

As to the above mentioned points, am not sure what to do. Fixing (1) and (2) looks easy if i can get to the parts, which implies taking apart the shutter assembly. Anyone here ever done that on Kiev or Contax shutters? Would appreciate any hints, ideas and warnings.

Regarding the (3), am not certain if it's a good idea to fiddle there. May changing the tension of the spring affect shutter speeds (which are reasonably accurate at the moment)?

 

[grifon]

1 and 2 make sense, as for 3, the upper drum does not have any springs in it, it just rolls around, the springs for both lower and upper curtain are located in the lower drum.

From my experience, taking apart a Kiev shutter requires a hell of a lot of manual dexterity, its pretty complex, and is not entirely obvious, some spots you wish you had three hands... there is little spacers and washers all over the place, and it seems impossible to stick them where they belong. Another important thing that I learned... is that the gearing in the shutter has very precise alignment (tooth to tooth) and is not marked anywhere... it was a huge pain trying to synch a thousand and one gears it has.

As for the spring tension... the springs for both lower and upper curtains like I said are in the lower drum, and are attached to the same shaft, so you can not change individual tensions... so if you do adjust it, it certainly will change your shutter speed.

 

[varjag]

OK, so it's the lower drum.. was confused becasue the wind action moves curtains upwards. So I'd leave the springs alone as suggested.

I'll try fixing (1) without disassembly (it's on the exterior of the shutter anyway), and maybe (2) if I find a file small enough.

WRT snap sound, maybe filing the edges a bit would help? It feels like the curtain meets the bottom a bit too early; the sound is not resonating but rather a solid thud with sensible vibration.

 

[pangkievrange]

Well, the position of the curtains in the housing will determine where the catching hooks disengaged during the winding process. It also will affect the process of the second curtain's coming down after the shutter is released.

pangkievrange

 

[varjag]

Ok, so filing them off is not a good idea then :/

RJ, am just trying to do the job that Arsenal workers should've done in the first place 🙂 I doubt this sample will ever match a Contax in smoothness, but would still like to improve the feel of the camera, as I shoot with it daily. All the better Kievs I've seen here were metered versions, and I really can't stand that useless hunch on a camera - makes it harder to carry in handgrab.

It was about time to service the camera anyway, tighten a screw here or there, clean up the finder.. the protest season is coming here and I'd like to have everything in order by that time.

 

[varjag]

OK, I've fixed (1) by bending the arm up slightly. Looks like I got the Zen of Kiev shutter release right, as the button now has even and short action.

Spent 2 hours last night trying to understand why the curtain snaps so loudly. My feeling still is that the bottom of the casting is a tad too high, so the curtain edges hit it earlier (and at higher velocity) than they should. OR it could be excessive tension of the spring, but I understand that it's a bad idea to mess with it. So unless I get a sudden revelation today, I'd probably give up on it.

 

[darkkavenger]

Good luck with this, Eugene!

 

[varjag]

RJ, it's not that I didn't enjoy it before: the Kiev actually handles quite well, the helical is butter smooth (esp. after silicon grease applied) and the roughness I mentioned is only noticed on direct comparison with better samples. I shot dozens and dozens of rolls through the thing, and we've been into situations with the camera together.. that probably makes me sentimental, hence the idea to have it as good as possible.

Anyway, I've done with improvements for now: shutter release action is very smooth and gentle, and that perhaps matters most in shooting practice. Anxious to take it out now; it's been fairly cold here, and the cloth shutter of FED-2 that I used as substitute camera tends to freeze in most inappropriate moments :/

 

[varjag]

Yeah, I have Contax II somewhere down on the list.. have to complete the lens lineup first though with a nice 28. And maybe a 21 🙂