Mamiya 7ii meter and underexposure...a real science!

[loic.sans]

Hi there,
I just bought and recieved a used Mamiya 7ii with a 80 mm lens.
This kit is in pristine condition.
SO I have loaded the beast with Provia 400 and ran a test roll.
I just got my film back and absolutely all the frames are underexposed by 2 stops or 3 stops.
So I got out my Leica M7 with the 35 summicron which I consider to be really accurate in 95% occasions. I have placed a book cover in front of me that covers 18% grey and compared both values given by the Mamiya and the leica.
The mamiya gives really weird values, it's always between 1 or 3 stops underexposed compared with the Leica. Also moving around gives me some funny values which tells me that the meter is not center weighted but more like a spot meter below to the right of the rangefinder patch...I am not even 100% sure of this yet.
I'll get my light meter out tonight and will try on typical "no problem for exposure shot".
Is it normal or should I find a mamiya repair center and send the body for adjustment?
Does anyone has any problem with this as well or anyone with tips would be really appreciated.
Thanks for reading

Loic

 

[monochromejrnl]

If I'm not mistaken, the M7II's meter is behind a window above the lens and not TTL. Is there something obstructing the window that the meter sits behind?

SPD cells don't usually die such an early death.

 

[loic.sans]

Yes you're right. THe difficulty is to figure out what exactly this cell is looking it in the frame???
And no there's nothing obstructing the window, and if it was I believe It would be over exposed, my camera is more on the under exposure side.

 

[loic.sans]

So does anyone has any idea what exact area the cell is measuring mounted with the 80mm lens?

 

[hans voralberg]

I've had it for 6 months and havent figure that out yet! Honestly just use the external meter, much easier.

 

[Debusti Paolo]

1 to 3 stop underexposure???I think you'd send it to the nearest oficcial repair centre.......😉

 

[loic.sans]

I am thinking of that, but it is such an unusual thing to happen to a camera like this. If it was the rangefinder out of focus, It would seem normal. I bare in mind that this was my first ever roll with this camera, but yeah such underexposed slide never happened to me.
In case I need to send it for repair...What is the nearest Mamiya repair center in London, UK?

 

[MichaelW]

A couple of years back I bought a 2nd hand Mamiya 7 & had a similar problem. It had been sold to me described as being in excellent condition. When i complained to the seller he admitted that he hadn't used it for a couple of years but it had never given problems before. He apparently did some research & came back to me saying that it was a common problem & easily fixed. He offered me $100 to cover this but I was annoyed at having been misled; when I buy something described as excellent I'm not impressed by having to ge it serviced within a week, luckily I got him to accept it back & refund my money. Sounds like you're in a similar position, so hopefully it is a simple service matter, certainly doesn't sound like a meter position or shape issue.

 

[250swb]

Are you using a correctly rated battery? But FWIW when I had mine it also under exposed, enough to bother me and the inconsistencey was also annoying. I ended up using a separate meter.

Steve

 

[monochromejrnl]

The Mamiya 7/7II is indeed a bit more like a "spot" than center-weighted, and is not TTL.

it is all relative to the FOV of the lens being used... if using the 43 the metered area is probably closer to a spot meter, with the 80mm probably closer to center-weighted and with teh 150 it probably behaves like a matrix...

like any camera/meter, the user has to learn how it behaves.. as long as it behaves consistently then the user can adjust/compensate...

 

[loic.sans]

Thanks for the answers.
Double Negative: How do you use the meter on your mamiya? Do you point to an average tone and use it as a spot meter or as a center weighted meter?
250swb: the battery is a premium brand battery, new, so I don't think the problem comes from there.

I am starting to think that the problem might be corrected from good metering practice with this camera. I don't think a meter can go completely nuts like that!

 

[andrewteee]

I recently acquired the M7ii (with the 80mm lens) and the first few roles were metered correctly. As I understand it, the longer the focal length the more the M7ii meter becomes a spot meter.

 

[loic.sans]

andrewteee: Is that not the opposite?
The longer the focal lenght is the more the meter becomes center weighted?

 

[Turtle]

Mine exposes very consistently, although I shoot mono. Mine meters from a very small area right where the focus patch is. I use it in AEL mode in mono and lock off a meter reading from the value I want at Z5 (pavement/concrete/grass etc) and I get amazingly consistent exposures. I found it fine in colour too, though I had to think a bit more and took more time to ensure I got things right.

Using Fuji 400x I would rate it at 320 for great exposures. Sounds like yours has a problem bec FWIW all my metered leicas measure the same and all are 1/2 stop more optimistic than my Mamiya i.e the Mamiya gives more exposure than the Leicas. I use the internal metering on mine with most 400 films rated at 320 or 400 depending on lighting. In the Leica I rate 250 normally.

 

[loic.sans]

Hi all,
In fact after a few tests, I can say that the meter underexposed by 1 stop...
In fact to get the correct exposure I need to set the film speed at 200 for a film of 400.
It's ok but a bit annoying.
Has anyone experienced such a problem with a Mamiya 7?
Cheers

Loic

 

[loic.sans]

The same way I meter most things; I find an area of the scene (or around me) that is relatively "average" and read that (knowing that meters can be fooled by overly bright/dim areas). So basically I'm taking an "18% grey" reading.

Thanks anyway, my meter is no doubt faulty. However setting a 400 film to 200 on the dial, I get perfect exposure, I guess i'll just send it for repair, as
it is quite unreliable.

 

[andrewteee]

Yep, I had it flipped. Sorry : (

 

[Bob Michaels]

See page 11 of the Mamiya 7 sales brochure http://www.mamiya.com/assets/pdfs/M7II/M7II_Brochure_English.pdf for an example of just how center weighted the metering is. (Sorry, I am too lazy to figure out how to cut and paste that particular graph)

I will say mine gives consistently accurate readings. But I do shoot manual after an independent ambient reading while shooting chrome.

Most importantly, I always look at the meter reading when using AE and see if it makes sense. I never rely on the meter blindly.

 

[paulhart]

I've had about 10 rolls through my 7ii since acquiring it a short time ago. I have used the 65, 80 and 150 lenses. I relied on the camera's metering system. I've had correctly exposed rolls of Provia 400X, XP2, and Fuji Acros 100 in a variety of lighting conditions - some straightforward, some more challenging. So on my admittedly limited experience, I'd say that if you're not getting something like that, your camera needs looking at.

 

[TJV]

You haven't by any chance accidentally placed the exposure compensation dial on -1ev? I often knock that on mine and it really annoys me. I never use the internal meter, though, just a handheld manual meter.