Mamiya M 645 & 1.9 80mm

[Peter_S]

There is one lens I really want to get my hands on some day, the Mamiya 80mm f/1.9.
OK, so I saw a really good deal on a Mamiya M 645 body, albeit with the 80mm 2.8. I do not need that, I am happy with my Bessa III.

Now my questions:
- How is the M 645 compared to a Rolleiflex or Hasselblad 500 in weight and size?
- I never used a SLR...how bad is the mirror slap in that camera, what are minimum hand-held times?
- how hard/easy is it to focus the camera?
- will I be able to sell the 2.8 80mm if the seller wants to sell the package only? It seems a standard lens which people who have this system probably have, or if not, then so for a reason. I do not like gear just siting around.

Cheers!
Peter

 

[Spanik]

1: no idea, don't have a Rolleiflex or Hasselblad. Guess it will be similar to a Hasselblad and heavier than a Rolleiflex. But don't keep me to that. Also depend a bit on what version you have and what viewfinder/motor you put on it.
2: mirror slap is reasonable. Can only compare it to a P6 or Kiev60 and it is certainly much better than that. Newer series has MLU.
3: depends on how well you see I think. I have no problem without glasses and any of the prisms if I have a diopter. The waistlevel finder I need the loupe. But that is the same for me for any camera. Viewfinder is bright and with a split prism it is very easy to focus.
4: no idea.

 

[aeturnum]

1) It's about the same size as a Rollei TLR, but oriented the other way. If you use the motor drive, it'll be wider.
2) Better than my Rollei 6000 cameras, but not by a ton. Careful handholding.
3) I have some trouble seeing the split prism in the screen. I have seen many different answers to this question, so I think a lot of it is based on the example you have.
4) I'm sure KEH will take it. I don't think there is much of a market for 80s other than the f/1.9. The f/2.8 and f/4 are both great lenses, but 80mm 645 lenses are easy to come by.

 

[Chris101]

...
Now my questions:
- How is the M 645 compared to a Rolleiflex or Hasselblad 500 in weight and size?

About the same.

- I never used a SLR...how bad is the mirror slap in that camera, what are minimum hand-held times?

It is well damped, and the bang happens after the exposure. Seems I can often hand hold at 1/30, but rarely at 1/15 with that camera.

- how hard/easy is it to focus the camera?

With the waist level finder, using the magnifier, it's pretty easy.

- will I be able to sell the 2.8 80mm if the seller wants to sell the package only? It seems a standard lens which people who have this system probably have, or if not, then so for a reason. I do not like gear just siting around.

Naw. I have an 80 from my old Mamiya on my desk as a paperweight (really!) They would only sell for a few bucks, so people just keep 'em.

 

[haempe]

my impressions:
1; similar
2; for me the 1/60 works usually with standard FL, make sure it's not the M645J - the only one without MLU
3; WA (45mm) is a bit hard, as with all SLR, standard and long FL is easy
4; they go for maybe 50...60 bucks on ebay, but it's a good lens, smaller, lighter and better than the 80/1,9 - actually no reason to sell it
(I use my 80/1.9 only if I need the extra stop - otherwise always the 80/2.8)

 

[sevo]

The 80/2.8 and 70/2.8 (and 80/4 macro) all are excellent lenses, all-around better than the 80/1.9 at any aperture from f/2.8 down. I'd keep at least one of them along the f/1.9.

 

[Monz]

I have two M645 1000s and several lenses including 80mm f1.9.
The Mamiya feels smaller than the 500CM but about the same weight. The build quality is very good.
Mirror slap is not bad. You should be able to get 1/60, maybe 1/30, hand held, with the 80mm lens. It has a simple mirror up lever which is handy if you have the camera on a tripod.
Focussing is quite easy with WLF and with prism. The latter is useful for portrait orientated shots.
The 80mm f2.8 is not worth very much... also it tends to suffer from stuck aperture blade syndrome.

This shot was taken with the 80mm f1.9:


S by *monz*, on Flickr

 

[KoNickon]

Very nice handling cameras -- you can go through a lot of film quickly with these. Battery dependence is a drawback, but not a big one.

 

[haempe]

Well, the main drawback is - it's not 6x6.
These cameras are nearly unusable in portrait-orientation... impossible with WLF, and with prism... a ergonomic unreasonable demand.

 

[Corran]

I found the 80/1.9 impossible to focus consistently with the standard AE prism and focus screen.

 

[BillBingham2]

Is MF and shooting at low shutter speeds is important to you go TLR.

- I found my 645 easier to use than the 'Blads I had access to.
- Mirror slap I remember as less of an issue than with the Blad, but then I customized a Vivitar L-Bracket grip to use with my 645. The handle was at 90 and with the help of my father I twisted it (and epoxy glued it in place) back to about 45 degrees. This made it very usable with the prism, but useless with the just the hood. When I shot with the hood I took the grip off.
- RFs spoiled me for focusing speeds. The big thing for me was finder brightness, all the MF SLRs except the Bronica I used once seemed dim. Someone made an improved focusing screen for them but I did not have her long enough to want one. I traded mine in on a M4-P, should have gone Nikon SP but I was young and stupid.
- Think paper weight, fire starter, I doubt you will have much of a market for it.

Fun camera, keep the battery fresh and mine ran very very well.

 

[Peter_S]

Thanks, all!

sounds like a bit of a learning curve is involved. I sold my Rolleiflex because I could not get used to it, no matter how good the images were (stellar). Thing is, the 645 is lot cheaper. I will give it a good thought and stick perhaps to my plan to fully focus on the Bessa III + T3 for film.

 

[Peter_S]

Hi again!
I got myself a M645 + 80 mm f/1.9, finally. Had quite a bit of wine one evening and in a moment of wine-induced brilliance I put an offer on Ebay and happened to win.
No regrets...a very nice camera, easier to use and focus than I thought. It also seems to be a real work horse with all features made for pure photography. Got a yellow filter just now and will put some rolls through it in the next weeks.
Thanks again to those who offered advice!

 

[mfogiel]

I am guessing you are afte the bokeh. I think you will be much better off with a Mamiya AFD for the reason that it is much easier to shoot vertically and you can equally adapt tons of great lenses to it. As far as I know, the bokeh of the 80/1.9 is not that great. Google for thebokehfactory. Instead of the 80/1.9, I would adapt the Summicron M 90 for it.

 

[Spanik]

Have fun with it! What version of the M645 did you get?

As far as I know, the bokeh of the 80/1.9 is not that great. Google for thebokehfactory. Instead of the 80/1.9, I would adapt the Summicron M 90 for it.

I have no idea how you are going to fit a lens made for a register of about 28.8mm to a camera that has a register of 63.3mm. Half of the lens would have to sit inside the mirror box.

A CZJ 180/2.8 would work but that is very different from an 80mm

 

[Peter_S]

Hi!
I was basically looking for a complement/backup to my Bessa III, with a price tag that justifies a purchase even if not using the camera all that often, and for use in harsh environments. I got the 1000S.
The bokeh of the 1.9/80 is a matter of taste, it may not be as charming as the Contax/Zeiss 2/80 or Rolleiflex Planar, but still nice in its own way; I like it. The bokeh seems to change quite a bit, depending on the light in the OOF-areas and the apertures used.

Spanik, thanks for the hint with the CZJ 180...that seems like an awesome lens to have. Adapters seem reasonably priced, as well.

 

[Spanik]

Good choice. As you say, bokeh is a matter of taste. The Mamiya 645 system has a lot of lenses as well but I never looked at the bokeh in particular. That CZJ 180 is know for it, but it is a handfull of lens (about as large as a M645), and the minimal focusing distance is rather large.

 

[mani]

I am guessing you are afte the bokeh. I think you will be much better off with a Mamiya AFD for the reason that it is much easier to shoot vertically and you can equally adapt tons of great lenses to it. As far as I know, the bokeh of the 80/1.9 is not that great. Google for thebokehfactory. Instead of the 80/1.9, I would adapt the Summicron M 90 for it.

Such utter rubbish opinions with no basis in experience do the forum a disservice.

The bokeh of the 1,9 is remarkably beautiful: I love the way portraits melt away, and highlights render without doubles. I'm sure if someone tries hard they can find some 'ugly' example somewhere - though even that is usually a matter of opinion.

The lens also has remarkable contrast even at widest aperture; with Portra it renders rich and intense colors, and especially good skin tones. And it's also incredibly sharp.

I've owned a couple of Summicron 90s, and have absolutely no idea why or how it would ever fit on a Mamiya 645. And I sold them, which I hope never to do with the Mamiya lens.

The 645 is an underrated camera, and the 1,9 would be praised to the heavens by internet snobs if Mandler had designed it.

 

[Brad Bireley]

Great camera. Vertical or horizontal works just fine. And you can't beat the price!

 

[mfogiel]

@ Spanik and mani
As they say, the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so your beautiful could be my ugly or vice versa.
Before you use words as "disservice" and "utter rubbish" think twice, nobody as yet has gotten hurt by thinking...
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