Mamiya Magazine 35

Minor- update: continuing aggravation😡

Got the f2.0 camera back from attempted repair...it was declared NOT REPAIRABLE. The problem seems to be worn-out gears in the slow-speed escapement. However-I'm a bit confused because the main problem was not the slow speeds before it was dis-assembled....now I have the camera back and it only fires at one speed for all settings - seems to be about 1/50 or 1/100 not sure exactly. Makes me mad because if you will remember- the main issue was the tough shutter release button- needs a lot of pressure to activate the shutter.

Well, now the release is a bit easier/better - but still crappy- it will make your finger sore after firing off several frames- not to mention the advance is not quite right either.

They seemed to indicate that the f2.8 camera is going to be restored just fine... so I guess that's good news. It wasn't ready to pick up yet so I'll believe it when I see it🙄

I try to remind myself of the Buddhist idea that "Desire leads to Suffering", but man, I really wanted to have the f2.0 camera fixed right. Now it's no better than it was months ago...if not a bit worse off!

Advice?

Should I keep hunting for a repairman- Vermont Camera said they would look at it, Youxin Ye? Anyone else? Will they all likely say it's not fixable due to lack of parts? Give up? Hunt for another 2.0? Just wait for the 2.8 and shoot it?
 
Seeking input and advice🙂

The F2.8 model had been successfully repaired- that's the good news- it is on the way back to me now- so fingers crossed!

As far as the F2.0 model goes--- I refuse to give up😉 I have been searching the world, online anyway, trying to find a repair option. No one wants to work on it...

Here's the questions: The shutter is a SEIKOSHA-MXL -- which was only offered in one size #00 and was used by several (many) different cameras i the late 1950's. It seems to be a fairly simple 5 bladed affair. Shouldn't parts be useable from other donor cameras? Not just more Mamiyas?

Can I fix this myself with the right tools, resources, and patience, and guidance? Could someone like Chris Sherlock (the Retina guy) fix the shutter if that's the issue?

The problem with the shutter release button may or may not involve a Mamiya specific linkage....right?
 
I don't have any specific knowledge about the Seikosha (or the Mamiya 35s) but, if the same basic shutter was used in several different cameras with the same speed range, flash sync and a timer, then I would expect most, if not all of the internal components should be interchangeable. Particularly if they were the same types of cameras. You would expect versions made for other types of cameras Eg. a reflex installation (if applicable) to have their own model codes.

Your description of the repairs carried out do not impress at all. It's one thing for a camera not to be repairable, economically, at least. It's quite another for one to be returned in a worse state than it was despatched, but, from what you have said that is precisely what happened. Did you actually pay them to make your sick camera really sick? I would expect it back in at least the same condition you sent it to them.

I can't answer your question as to whether or not you could repair it yourself, I'm sorry. Only you can work that out. But patience, perseverance and a gentle touch go a long way, as does as willingness to look and think about what the parts are doing, and what they are probably meant to do. Some cameras were never very good to begin with, meaning that fifty years or more after they were made, it may be a very big ask for even the most capable of repair people to persuade them to run reliably. Not that I'm necessarily putting the Mamiya in that category. But from the little I know about the company's 35mm cameras, I understand that not all of them were made in house. Still, as long as the shutter wasn't manufactured out of inferior quality materials or under-dimensioned parts, etc. then, yes, with a little (or a lot) of patience, and perhaps some replacement parts, it should be possible to make it work. The thing you may have on your side is the ability to invest a lot more time in the exercise than the people you took it to. And from what you've said, more skills, too...

You would have to ask Chris if he would be willing to take the camera on. I do my own repairs so have never needed to use his services, but I have corresponded with him. He's a nice guy, often shares his knowledge generously with camera owners here at RFF, and has gone to the trouble of writing some great strip down and repair articles on his site. I've also heard a lot of good reports about his work, so I have no hesitation at all in recommending him, but he may or may not be interested in looking at your camera.

If you would like to have a crack at it yourself, I suggest you make a list of the other cameras that used the same shutter, investigate the existence of repair manuals, website articles or other sources of information, and then procure yourself an example of one of the cheaper types. Before you look to fixing the Mamiya, see if you can persuade the donor camera back to working order first.

There are two reasons for suggesting this. Firstly, given the points you have queried, I'm assuming you haven't done a lot of camera repairs to date, right? Practicing on a donor camera you won't be as upset about possibly breaking is therefore a pretty good idea. Secondly, if you're trying to get the Mamiya going, it can be really helpful to observe a working example of the shutter in question, because it may assist greatly in determining what the particular faults with the Mamiya shutter are. So, don't rip into any donor shutter before you've had a go at getting it running and understanding how it works. And take digital photographs as you go. More than you think you need. You may need all of them!
Cheers,
Brett
 
Brett- Thanks for the thoughtful response, it's good to hear from someone with good ideas- a lot of those ideas match my own🙄.

I have "attempted" camera repair several times over the years...gathered some of the proper tools, supplies, and manuals, but I've never had much luck, sad to say. I am a competent auto mechanic and I've restored a few cars over the years, but those skills don't necessarily transfer over. Mostly I've just carefully dismantled cameras- never to really get them back together...I have had a bit of lucking cleaning and lubing already working cameras and fixing cosmetic damage (not very difficult work).

What I thought was interesting about Chris S. is that he mentions that he will rebuild a Seikosha shutter if the customer wants to remove it form the camera and send it (just the shutter) to him. Sounds like a possibility, assuming that's the problem.

The repair story on this particular camera is a bit more complicated than I've so far told, but long story short (it mostly in my previous posts here) the camera arrived last summer in OK shape- mostly functional- I almost immediately messed it up by trying to screw on a 48mm hood on the outer lens ring- the threads were a bit wobbly (bent then repaired) and I should have known better, but unscrewing after it wouldnt go in smoothly, messed up the aperture selector and the shutter speeds.

Doug (my local repairman) at Camera Clinic in north Seattle, got it going again - but had to improvise a broken part and the camera wasn't really the same- the new symptom was the overly firm shutter release button. I shot it like this for a few months- but wan't really happy and gradually the shutter itself became erratic.

Off to Portland for "repairs"--

"Your description of the repairs carried out do not impress at all. It's one thing for a camera not to be repairable, economically, at least. It's quite another for one to be returned in a worse state than it was despatched, but, from what you have said that is precisely what happened. Did you actually pay them to make your sick camera really sick? I would expect it back in at least the same condition you sent it to them."

I struggled with this as well- but I knew there were issues with preivous conditions and attempted repairs so I didn't pursure a complaint- there was NO CHARGE for their attempt-- they were able to repair another camera -- my Mamiya f2.8 Magazine.

So I have the camera back (the broken 2.0) --- I think I may call Doug- even though he said he did not want to work on it again- and get his advice. I watched him remove the front elements at his shop- looked pretty easy- I will need a piece of rubber to unscrew the front.

I have my eye on a few cheap cameras (like the various Aires model) with the same shutter for practice and I have a e-mail sent off to Chris Sherlock about shutter servicing.

I will keep the RFF community updated whatever happens🙂
 
Talked with Doug on the phone just now. He is willing to take another look at the camera. The only other thing I've noticed is the front element looks like it is screwed on a bit tighter than it was after Doug's repair last August...hmmmm.

Well, I'll get it over to him ASAP and see if he can work his magic😉
 
There used to be a place called Photography on Bald Mountain that took on just about any repair...I think the fellows name was Ken....might be worth a try if he is still around......good luck..regards,Bill
 
Thanks for the extra information. It's an unusual enough camera that it's worth going to reasonable lengths to try to save it I think, if it was mine I would be trying to get it going, too. Using various Contaflexes on a regular basis I am also able to appreciate the virtues of being able to switch films occasionally mid-roll. It can be a very useful feature and one that very few 35mm cameras offer.
Cheers,
Brett
 
Thanks for agreeing that it's worth saving. The f2.8 model is decent for sure- but in practice- my test of the two cameras I have show the f2.0 glass to be sharper (not just faster and more rare).

Doug, my local guy, is funny about these old cameras- he is a real master but very frugal--- he can't believe that I would want to spend "as much as $150" to repair it. I tried to explain the rarity and the replacement value and he keeps referring to his source book that state the camera is worth no more than $225 in top condition (but that's for the f2.8 model-- his book doesn't even mention the F2.0 model). At least he has agree to have another look 🙂

I just bid and won a really rough and ugly looking f2.8 model.... might be fun for experimenting and at that price- the removeable back is worth the price!!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mamiya-Sekor-2-8-5cm-Seikosha-MXL-Camera-/261778339641?autorefresh=true&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Z%252FsiK8km6%252FdrUyOqqn1aJgkE7dk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc
 
Perhaps you can get it going and worst case scenario you have, as you say, another back and a parts shutter.

With the Contaflex, Zeiss supplied a standard back when they were new and the magazine backs were accessories sold separately. So there are always a handful on offer at any time, and they are easy to find, if not always at reasonable prices. So I think that's a good score, as I imagine Mamiya film backs are not so easy to procure.
Cheers
Brett
 
Right, with the Mamiya, the magazine back is all you have. Counting the one I just won last weekend, I now have 7 backs.

Today, the repaired 2.8 camera arrived at my door- seems to be in good working order now with all of the little flaws gone🙂 Some time soon, I will take the 2.0 back to the local option and let Doug have another shot at it.

I'll give you all an update when the beater arrives....
 
I'm wondering about rangefinder calibration on my Mamiya cameras... focus is not accurate - especially on the f2.0. For example, at 7 feet the rangefinder coincides with 10 feet on the lens (compared with a couple of other known rangefinders and the good old tape measure).

Even the new repaired f2.8 model is focusing rather odd- pretty accurate up close, but gets worse at mid to far distance:bang:

See the little silver port/plug near the viewfinder window? Perhaps that is access to the rf adjustment? I'm still planning on taking the f2.0 in for repair when I can find time in the next couple of days... but it may be time to admit defeat with these interesting, but troublesome cameras. I would love to make these my number one shooters but I can't seem to get a fully functional copy. Have a look at the picture and see if you can spot the "port"

U26723I1408853102.SEQ.0.jpg
 
Fate is not being kind with this endeavor--- cheap ebay find was marked as delivered today- no trace of it...they left it on the porch, now its gone. I am currently on hold on the phone USPS-- - of course they won't let me speak with a human-- eternal hold😡
 
Perhaps better news is on the horizon...
The stolen/lost camera "may" turn up after all- may have been delivered to wrong house-- not holding my breathe.

The other two cameras are back at Doug's...we will have to wait and see if this is the end of the line or not... no more repairs or money will be spent on this project. EDIT: Unless $ is raised by selling camera gear!

Thanks for the interest and support! Advice always welcome- I value the voices here🙂
 
Mamiya Magazine 35 Research and List:

• Introduced in 1957 (list price $89.50)
• Noted in advertisement in Feb. 1960 (Broadway Camera Shops-close-out @ $49.50) Any one know of any sales references beyond this?

I've been doing some casual research and organized a quick list of known serial numbers for these cameras. All of these are public record, if you know of more and want to add to the list, let me know (could just be a partial number for security; like 783***) All of the numbers in red have been collected since I first started this list in 2015

Observed serial numbers:
750028 "Big Windows" - top plate only
750124 "Big Windows" - top plate only - I own this one.
750292 "Big Windows"
750692 f2.8 "Big Windows"
750935 f2.8 "Big Windows"
• 751080 f2.8 “Big Windows” model – arsenal-photo.com
751146 f2.8 "Big Windows"
751976 f2.8 "Big Windows"
752415 f2.8 "Big Windows"
752527 f2.8 "Big Windows"
753124 f2.8 "Big Windows"
• 754015 f2.8 “Big Windows” model –“hjh67” collectiblend
1404122459.jpeg

• 754770 f2.8 “Big Windows” model
755875 f2.8 "Big Windows"
756082 f2.8 "Big Windows" w/ Japan language manual
756346 f2.8 "Big Windows"
757133 f2.8 "Big Windows"

• 780016 f2.8 – in the official Mamiya User’s Manual
780384 f2.8
780547 f2.8
780618 f2.8 - in the Virtual Camera Museum
780654 f2.8
781040 f2.8
781182 f2.8
781284 f2.8
781330 f2.8

781517 f2.8
781541 f2.8
• 781558 f2.8
781622 f2.8
781636 f2.8
781712 f2.8
781815 f2.8
781914 f2.8


782070 f2.8 – I own; from Pacific Rim Camera
782093 f2.8
782135 f2.8
782189 f2.8
782204 f2.8
782269 f2.8
• 782291 f2.8

782317 f2.8
782320 f2.8 - I own as of 9-2016 Complete but not working
• 782436 f2.0 – I own; from Tokyo
782521 f2.0 - listed for sale 3/19 Australia
• 782528 f2.8 – Receipt for repair attempt in 1972
• 782605 f2.0 – I own; came from Gary Hill’s collection
782635 f2.8
782695 f2.8
782747 f2.8
• 782835 f2.8 – French website
782873 f2.8
782935 f2.8


783281 f2.8- Australian Website
• 783302 f2.8
• 783712 f2.8 – camera-wiki website


Lots of interesting questions and ponderings come up when looking at this list😎

The "Big Window" cameras are intriguing... the design is definitely different: all three windows- viewfinder, rangefinder, and eye-piece are shaped different/bigger. Are the internal optics different as well? Was this a Japan-only version? Early run? Late Run with out of sequence number batch? Was there a "Big Window" f2.0 made?

How many were made? What is the breakdown of f2.8 versus f2.0 cameras? Does the "7" indicate 1957? How long were they in production?

What do you think?
 
Mine is 781636 (5cm/2.8 version).

cassel said:
Mamiya Magazine 35 Research and List:

• Introduced in 1957 (list price $89.50)
• Noted in advertisement in Feb. 1960 (Broadway Camera Shops-close-out @ $49.50) Any one know of any sales references beyond this?

I've been doing some casual research and organized a quick list of known serial numbers for these cameras. All of these are public record, if you know of more and want to add to the list, let me know (could just be a partial number for security; like 783***)

Observed serial numbers:
• 751080 f2.8 “Big Windows” model – arsenal-photo.com
• 754015 f2.8 “Big Windows” model –“hjh67” collectiblend
• 754770 f2.8 “Big Windows” model

• 780016 f2.8 – in the official Mamiya User’s Manual

• 781558 f2.8

• 782070 f2.8 – I own; from Pacific Rim Camera
• 782291 f2.8
• 782436 f2.0 – I own; from Tokyo (in transit🙄)
• 782528 f2.8 – Receipt for repair attempt in 1972
• 782605 f2.0 – I own; came from Gary Hill’s collection; in for repair
• 782835 f2.8 – French website

• 783302 f2.8
• 783712 f2.8 – camera-wiki website


Lots of interesting questions and ponderings come up when looking at this list😎

The "Big Window" cameras are intriguing... the design is definitely different: all three windows- viewfinder, rangefinder, and eye-piece are shaped different/bigger. Are the internal optics different as well? Was this a Japan-only version? Early run? Late Run with out of sequence number batch? Was there a "Big Window" f2.0 made?

How many were made? What is the breakdown of f2.8 versus f2.0 cameras? Does the "7" indicate 1957? How long were they in production?

What do you think?
Click to expand...
 
cassel said:
I'm wondering about rangefinder calibration on my Mamiya cameras... focus is not accurate - especially on the f2.0. For example, at 7 feet the rangefinder coincides with 10 feet on the lens (compared with a couple of other known rangefinders and the good old tape measure).

Even the new repaired f2.8 model is focusing rather odd- pretty accurate up close, but gets worse at mid to far distance:bang:

See the little silver port/plug near the viewfinder window? Perhaps that is access to the rf adjustment? I'm still planning on taking the f2.0 in for repair when I can find time in the next couple of days... but it may be time to admit defeat with these interesting, but troublesome cameras. I would love to make these my number one shooters but I can't seem to get a fully functional copy. Have a look at the picture and see if you can spot the "port"

U26723I1408853102.SEQ.0.jpg
Click to expand...

Any thoughts on a RF adjust? One of my Magazine 35 cameras has a lens with a nice range of travel from near to infinity- but the actual double image in the viewfinder is quite a bit off at infinity--- I'm thinking the little port next to the front window MAY be the access. BUT there is no slot for a screw driver😕 Any idea how to get it off without scratching the camera top plate??? Hmmm... HELP
 
SUCCESS! 😎

The little port is not a plug--it's a screw. A little gentle pushing in the correct direction and it unscrewed - would be a lot easier if they had made it with a slot for a screwdriver!

Side thought: The "Big Window" version of this camera does not have the port.... does that mean they made those first and then re-designed the camera to allow for a rangefinder adjustment with removing the top plate???

Anyway- the adjustment is right behind it- turning it clockwise, I was able to align the images at "infinity". Seems good now-- hooray.

Confession- this was on my newest acquisition - another example of the rare f2.0 model. I ordered it form an online seller based in Tokyo. The lens looked dirty on arrival, but some gentle cleaning and it's much cleaner- though there looks to be a bit of internal fungus on the edge. Pretty minor- but not as nice as my other f2.0 camera. I don't feel too bad about spending money on another one of these--- completely paid for by selling some Nikon gear🙄
 
Back in business! Today I was finally (not since October) able to shoot with a Mamiya Magazine 35..... Here's my "kit":
Leather half case
48-49 adapter ring to use 49mm hood
Neoprene strap (Samsonite)
Sekonic L-136 Cds meter=accurate!

U26723I1426562611.SEQ.0.jpg



The camera is so smooth and quiet, I wasn't sure at first it was working! SO nice...hopefully it is a good performer--this is the first test roll in this particular f2.0 camera.
 
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