shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
I have to put in my vote for the MUP.
Get a 100mm f/2.8 lens if you can, it's super good.
Get a 100mm f/2.8 lens if you can, it's super good.
Mamiya Standard 23 vs Hasselblad 500 C/M
- Thread starter RBruceCR
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RBruceCR
Well-known
HamRadio:
Opening the Range Finder: A can of worms or Pandora's box. Better not fix what isn't broken.
Well I didn't bring the camera was swamped with work and we have a National holiday on Friday so all has to be in place before Friday. Perhaps I will go on Friday an make the pictures that I want on my time.
In the mean time, thank you very much for your input and enjoy your Super 23 as i am going to enjoy my dad's Standard 23!
Shadowfox: I've seen those 100/2.8's Sweet big glass!
Regards,
Robert
Opening the Range Finder: A can of worms or Pandora's box. Better not fix what isn't broken.
Well I didn't bring the camera was swamped with work and we have a National holiday on Friday so all has to be in place before Friday. Perhaps I will go on Friday an make the pictures that I want on my time.
In the mean time, thank you very much for your input and enjoy your Super 23 as i am going to enjoy my dad's Standard 23!
Shadowfox: I've seen those 100/2.8's Sweet big glass!
Regards,
Robert
x-ray
Veteran
RBruceCR in the early 70's I worked for a research firm as an aerial photographer. We did a variety of work from shooting 9x9 inch IR color to study pine seedling growth to shooting 4 emulsions simultaneously in an array of Hasselblad EL cameras with 70mm backs mounted in the bey of a DC3 or Piper Aztec. We did mapping for utilities, cities and forestry projects. We shot IR color (E-3 process), Ektachrome, plus x, a special ultra high definition B&W neg and IR B&W and sometimes aero color negative. All emulsions were aerial films with a low blue sensitivity. We also shot these emulsions in a Zeiss 9x9 aerial camera. We used a variety of lenses including SWC superwides, 50, 80, 150 and 250 lenses. We ran all of our film in house and printed everything ourselves. I did most of the shooting, processing and printing.
I'm a pilot so flying is no problem. I usually take a copilot but have shot higher altitude work from a champion by holding the stick between my knees and feet on the rudders. Life the window open or leave the door behind and it's easy. The 6x7 Pentax was ideal. I do a variety if work from shooting land development to air to air between aircraft. At one time I shot ww2 warbirds from an AT6 Texan. I used a copilot then. There's no room for errors flying formation at low altitude and high speed. In 120 you don't have any choice but to shoot regular film. Higher contrast film is best in B&W and if it's hazy a K2 or G filter helps. In color transparency a film that's wArmer in color or at least neutral and as much contrast as possible is ideal.
I ran a lot of my Transparency film for years but in later years sent it to a lab. I always run my B&W.
I'm using digital now for aerials. My D800 is perfect.
RF cameras aren't as good for aerials as SLRs IMO. I like a high wing aircraft and with an RF it's too easy to get a wing strut in the photo. I find it's easier to compose and keep struts out of the image with an slr.
Everyone has their own secrets. I've even used a crown graphic and Linhof master Technika with film packs from helicopters.
The Pentas is a fabulous camera. It's big and heavy but easy to shoot and keep stable. Their optics are excellent and they're easy to get repaired if you have a problem. Also lenses are easy to find at cheap prices.
Another good camera is a Hasselblad with a 90 degree prism. It's almost as good as the Pentax and has the advantage of using multiple preloaded backs. Loading during a flight is a pain Nd dropping things out of the aircraft happens. I've dropped Hasselblad slides before.
The DC3 was shot on a 6x7 Pentax with a 105 on Velvia. The F16 using a Rollei 3003 and think it was an 85 planar. I think it was EPP Ektachrome. May have been EPR.
Glad you like my work.
I'm a pilot so flying is no problem. I usually take a copilot but have shot higher altitude work from a champion by holding the stick between my knees and feet on the rudders. Life the window open or leave the door behind and it's easy. The 6x7 Pentax was ideal. I do a variety if work from shooting land development to air to air between aircraft. At one time I shot ww2 warbirds from an AT6 Texan. I used a copilot then. There's no room for errors flying formation at low altitude and high speed. In 120 you don't have any choice but to shoot regular film. Higher contrast film is best in B&W and if it's hazy a K2 or G filter helps. In color transparency a film that's wArmer in color or at least neutral and as much contrast as possible is ideal.
I ran a lot of my Transparency film for years but in later years sent it to a lab. I always run my B&W.
I'm using digital now for aerials. My D800 is perfect.
RF cameras aren't as good for aerials as SLRs IMO. I like a high wing aircraft and with an RF it's too easy to get a wing strut in the photo. I find it's easier to compose and keep struts out of the image with an slr.
Everyone has their own secrets. I've even used a crown graphic and Linhof master Technika with film packs from helicopters.
The Pentas is a fabulous camera. It's big and heavy but easy to shoot and keep stable. Their optics are excellent and they're easy to get repaired if you have a problem. Also lenses are easy to find at cheap prices.
Another good camera is a Hasselblad with a 90 degree prism. It's almost as good as the Pentax and has the advantage of using multiple preloaded backs. Loading during a flight is a pain Nd dropping things out of the aircraft happens. I've dropped Hasselblad slides before.
The DC3 was shot on a 6x7 Pentax with a 105 on Velvia. The F16 using a Rollei 3003 and think it was an 85 planar. I think it was EPP Ektachrome. May have been EPR.
Glad you like my work.
Attachments
x-ray
Veteran
RBruceCR
Well-known
Outstanding work description! I wish my professional activity was as interesting than yours but we descend from a long line of printers. My grand father Oswald R. Bruce had a newsletter by transcribing news from the BBC from his shortwave radio and wrote editorial notes too. All the news letters were bought by the US Embassy and the British Legation in San Jose and distributed to all the embassies and legations in Central America.
My father got into offset printing to give the newsletter a more industrial look and to expand in the publicity sales and to make the newsletter into an English Newspaper. We've been in business for over 51 years and today we cater business forms, flexible packaging and short run booklets and publications in our digital copier for a variety of customers. I got into photography by my father to further our calendar business. Dad could not continue the English language newspaper and got into calendars and greeting cards to make the payments for the presses he bought. At one time we printed all the calendars in Costa Rica and had three Vespa's with collectors driving all round Costa Rica in the 1970's collecting the payments from a variety of small businesses. Today we still print calendars, but only seasonally but still manage to cater short run flexible packaging and labels for the food and health industry in Costa Rica. I have been in the business for over 30 years now!
So today I'm in the conundrum of wanting to get into a Hasselblad and spending as little as possible, perhaps some of the blood of O.R. Bruce still runs in my veins...
Did you use processing equipment to develop the film, perhaps automated equipment? It seems that for the aerial vegetation studies, you run an awful lot of film. We at the shop developed manually but then everything changed so fast and we now have digital plates and chemical processing of the plates as we are not yet in the cutting edge of technology were the plates are chemistry free (a fallacy as the plates are processed in the fountain solution of the press which contains acid and at least 10% IPA). The photo-mechanical camera and the dark rooms are now abandoned. I will probably star developing and printing there, but scanning the negatives and having them processed at a lab is much more convenient!
Take care and thanks for the lengthy explanation. I do remember very fondly the DC3 airplanes at the airport in San Jose.
Regards,
My father got into offset printing to give the newsletter a more industrial look and to expand in the publicity sales and to make the newsletter into an English Newspaper. We've been in business for over 51 years and today we cater business forms, flexible packaging and short run booklets and publications in our digital copier for a variety of customers. I got into photography by my father to further our calendar business. Dad could not continue the English language newspaper and got into calendars and greeting cards to make the payments for the presses he bought. At one time we printed all the calendars in Costa Rica and had three Vespa's with collectors driving all round Costa Rica in the 1970's collecting the payments from a variety of small businesses. Today we still print calendars, but only seasonally but still manage to cater short run flexible packaging and labels for the food and health industry in Costa Rica. I have been in the business for over 30 years now!
So today I'm in the conundrum of wanting to get into a Hasselblad and spending as little as possible, perhaps some of the blood of O.R. Bruce still runs in my veins...
Did you use processing equipment to develop the film, perhaps automated equipment? It seems that for the aerial vegetation studies, you run an awful lot of film. We at the shop developed manually but then everything changed so fast and we now have digital plates and chemical processing of the plates as we are not yet in the cutting edge of technology were the plates are chemistry free (a fallacy as the plates are processed in the fountain solution of the press which contains acid and at least 10% IPA). The photo-mechanical camera and the dark rooms are now abandoned. I will probably star developing and printing there, but scanning the negatives and having them processed at a lab is much more convenient!
Take care and thanks for the lengthy explanation. I do remember very fondly the DC3 airplanes at the airport in San Jose.
Regards,
Chris101
summicronia
The Mamiya in the hand is worth more than the Hasselblad in the bush (classifieds.)
Platitudes aside, I have always wanted a nice Hassy, and have never fantasized about a Mamiya 23, not even once.
Platitudes aside, I have always wanted a nice Hassy, and have never fantasized about a Mamiya 23, not even once.
oftheherd
Veteran
Any time precise composition is needed, a ground glass back is the answer. That could include colseups, or maybe other things as well. There was a ground glass back made that was just that. All others I have seen were also for cut film holders. Cut film holders are kind of hard to find these days I think, and probably expensive if you do. Cut film can be purchased or cut down from 4x5 or 9x12.
If you are going to do closeups, you will also need the extension tubes (I guess close up filters too), or you will have to fabricate something yourself. Then you will need to find the tables, or experiment for exposure compensation. But when you figure it all out, the photos you can get will make you happy.
oftheherd
Veteran
To each his own. I have probably fantasized about just about every camera I have ever seen. Practicality thankfully sets in after a while, so I don't own a Makina, Pentax 67, 6x9 Graflex nor view canera, nor any of dozens of other cameras (not to say I don't own too many-but it's fun). My Mamiya Press is truely a system camera and will do surprising things if you stop long enough to figure thiings out. The bellows back was one thing I never had to use though.
BillBingham2
Registered User
Yo Bruce,
Buy the 'Blad!
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/46...aunches-50mp-cfv-50c-back-for-legacy-v-system
Sounds like they got this one right.
B2
Buy the 'Blad!
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/46...aunches-50mp-cfv-50c-back-for-legacy-v-system
Sounds like they got this one right.
B2
RBruceCR
Well-known
Bill, I browsed through the nicely illustrated article, and when I got to the price of the Leaf-Aptus back prices on eBay and they are in the brand new vehicle arena, this one also. If It had to be this expensive then it's meant for the very specialized professional making billboards for global beer companies!
That's very far from my nick of the woods!
That's very far from my nick of the woods!
RBruceCR
Well-known
Screen only or screen and holder
Screen only or screen and holder
Hi, @oftheherd, will the screen only attachment fit my Standard 23 or do I need the screen-cut film holder as shown in the owners manual is the only one that will fit?
Thanks for the explanation of the usage of the screen, albeit the more stuff that I buy for my Standard 23 the less cash is left for the would be V series!
I didn't know that I could trick the old Mamiya into close up photography! That's quite a project!
Screen only or screen and holder
Hi, @oftheherd, will the screen only attachment fit my Standard 23 or do I need the screen-cut film holder as shown in the owners manual is the only one that will fit?
Thanks for the explanation of the usage of the screen, albeit the more stuff that I buy for my Standard 23 the less cash is left for the would be V series!
I didn't know that I could trick the old Mamiya into close up photography! That's quite a project!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Only two links works. And IQ on them is ... Meh.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Bruce, if you are enjoying the Mamiya, get yourself one of the really great lenses in this system: 100mm f/2.8, 75mm f/5.6, or the exotic 50mm.
6x9 is a great format.
6x9 is a great format.
RBruceCR
Well-known
After the sticker shock despite the many consonant combinations (500CM>501C, 500CM=503CX, 501CM>501C) I am starting to enjoy the Mamiya thoroughly!
I have seen the big aperture lenses 100/2.8 and the exotic 50 with the fine viewer on eBay, perhaps I'll take the plunge some day, let me pass some more film through my repacked backs before I decide which (probably it's going to be the exotic 50 some day)!
I'll like to document the Neo-colonial and Neo-classical homes of Barrio Escalante in the Eastern limit of San Jose, I believe these homes are becoming office buildings and will some day give way to high rises...and what fine medium to do this than 6 X 9 and at least the 65/6.3 lens that I have!
Regards,
RBruceCR
Well-known
Hi, all the links work on this side of the screen...which gives you the Meh expression?
RBruceCR
Well-known
Couldn't agree more! Got to pass more feet of film through the backs! Got some Rollei Classical B/W to test and some 4 Ektar frames to go through and three backs of film, one labeled in the eBay auction as 6 X 7 but was a 6 X 9 albeit newer than mines so I kept it!
And Hasselblad is indeed an object of desire, couldn't agree more, and that's no platitude at all!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Today all four works.
Red t-short guy photo is soft on bottom.
And the rest is kind of... I don't know how to describe it. No MF feel in them.
I don't think here is any "vs Hasselblad" with anything in terms of IQ.
Price, changing things, yes. IQ, no.
RBruceCR
Well-known
I checked the 90/3.5 and it's choked full of fungi, perhaps that's why the T-Max looks soft. i'm enquiring if it can be cleaned in Costa Rica or I will start looking for a replacement. My 150/5.6 is a blue dot, I've seen in the past 50 with the blue dot, but at a very steep price too close to Hasselblad V series for comfort!
RBruceCR
Well-known
Were you part of the Austro-Hungarian empire? I'll be looking at more pictures of André Kertesz, Brassai, Cappa, and others like them such as Martín Chambí. Their pictures speak of their moment in time, of special note is André Kertesz. i wonder what other kind of camera besides the view camera he used for his social photography!
Thanks for the commentary about my test run in color, I discovered that the 90/3.5 is choked full of fungi! Indeed the pictures do not look like MF! I have to study more! I liked many of your pictures in your Flickr feed. I will have to study more on the medium! Tell me what you think about this series before finding the light leak through the lens release button:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/12258633363/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rbruce63/12258618533/in/photostream/
Indeed comparing the Mamiya to the Hasselblad makes sense to me because I already have the Mamiya but have longed for a Hasselblad. But it's a moot discussion since or one has the money to spend or not.
To compound the issue, there are pristine looking Hasselblads at a steep price, overhauled 500CM's at a steep price, "rat" ones for the price of a Mamiya lens. To add to the issue I bought the Third Edition of The Mamiya Manual so it's like pouring salt on an open wound!
Regards,
charjohncarter
Veteran
When you get everything sorted out you will love the 6x9 negative. I have only the 100mm and the 65mm, they were both very inexpensive. Here is the 65mm in a Mission, I think this was Tmax400:
