Medium Format Conundrum

[PatrickT]

I was recently given a Bronica ETRS (6x4.5, SLR) camera for Christmas with the option of using it and then potentially getting something else. I had never considered getting an MF SLR (aside from a Hassy) before, so this threw a loop into my "plan". I had never even heard about this Bronica until Christmas morning.

I currently own a Rolleiflex T and a Pentax 6x7 (with 105/2.4). I love both. With that combo, I get 6x6 and 6x7, both in easy to use cameras. I would really love to replace my T with a 2.8 model for the extra light gathering and limited depth of field and is something I've been considering for several months. But of course, they are expensive.

I am wondering where this Bronica fits into my "system". I had never considered the 6x4.5 format as it seemed unnecessary when I could have the larger 6x6 or 6x7 negatives. However, I do find that having interchangeable backs is REALLY handy.

After recieving the Bronica, I started looking into more MF SLRs and came across the Mamiya RB and RZ systems. These seem to be setup the same as the Bronica with some added conviniences (6x7, 6x6 or 6x4.5 format, rotating backs, etc) but at a larger size and more weight. They are relatively cheap and I could get an RB or RZ setup for around what I could get for my Bronica.

So of course, I'm not sure what to do. Keep the Bronica? Sell the Bronica and get an RB or RZ? Sell the Bronica and use the money to fund a Rolleiflex 2.8? Sell the Bronica and get something else entirely (perhaps a Canon P, Leica M2, etc...other non-MF cameras that I've been wanting since I have enough MF equipment as it is)?

I shoot primarily portraits, fashion, etc...not in a studio and don't really like using a tripod.

Thoughts?

 

[Brian Legge]

Shoot it first, worry about what to do after using it a few times? 😉

The people I know shooting 645s treat them almost like 35mm SLRs, using them for quick shapshots but with the DOF/negative size benefits of MF and interchangeable backs. I'm not trying to diminish the quality of their work by any means here, but am speaking more to using the camera as a bridge between the formats.

My only 645 is a scale focus folder though; I don't have any experience with the Bronica 645. I don't have any complaints about the SQ line though, particular as the prices are nice. The 645 lines (Bronica and Mamiya) are both cheaper from what I've seen.

 

[f16sunshine]

Lot's of folks love 645 and have been very productive taking advantage of it. My personal experience so far is I prefer a 6x6 and 6x9. If I was in your position having already in your possession the Pentax 67 and that beutiful 105mm for close ups and accurate framing. Do consider getting an additional Rolleiflex with 2.8 lens or even consider getting a Fuji GW690iii to round out your Medium format frame sizes rather than another SLR. After a few months of having 66,67, and 69 around you will know which is the "go-to" and what may be sent on to another user.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

I shoot a lot with a Bronica ETRsi. I also have an RB67 kit. The RB67 is physically big. While folks do use them handheld, in my opinion, it isn't fun to do. Great on a tripod. I've never liked 6x6, so 6x4.5 has been the sweet spot for me handheld. The ETR is a good camera, excellent lenses, light weight and amazingly inexpensive to put a nice kit together. YMMV, of course.

 

[mfogiel]

I think the 4.5x6 format is not bad for portraiture, especially for the tighter shots, however if thi is not your prime piece of bread, then getting a god Rolleiflex 2.8F with a Planar would be a smart move for someone who really likes to use these cameras. Another option would be to sell the Bronica and your Rollei T and get a Hasselblad with the 80 and 120 or 150mm lenses.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

While the Mamiya RB/RZ system is good, fantastic acutally, it is huge. You could fit your Bronica into the Mamiya RB kind of like a chicken stuffed into a duck stuffed into a turkey. A "Mamionica". The ETRS is a pretty small MF SLR system with some great lenses and system accessories. I say shoot it for a while and see if the format grows on you. If not, at least you gave it a try.

Phil Forrest

 

[kuzano]

The plus features on The Bronica ETRS or ETRSi

The plus features on The Bronica ETRS or ETRSi

1) Its' medium format with negative 2.7x greater than 35mm
2) Its well built and reliable
3) Lightest of the System SLR camera's
4) Full feature, with the Si having even Mirror Lock UP
5) Great glass.... zenza glass is no slouch
6) Leaf shutter in all lenses
7) There are two 35mm backs available.... a vertical transport regular 35 frame, and a horizontal panoramic with a frame size about 56mm long.

Prices are good and supply of accessories is very high.

However, if the attractive carry size is of no issue to you, you can get 645 backs for all the other larger format system SLR's, except the 35mm (I believe)

I watched a wedding photographer shoot an afternoon wedding with two RB67's (his assistant kept loaded backs ready). He was wasted by the time the day was over. The RB/RZ's are quite heavy.

 

[Brian Levy]

I've had my ETRS system for several decades as well as a couple of Rolleiflex TLRs and love both and don't think of the as competing in any way. I actually prefer a 3.5 to 2.8 Rollei as they tend to be lighter to carry and the accessories are less expensive (Bay I also seem more plentiful).

When I shoot 6x6, many times I end up cropping with a result being the same image as contained in a 645 so I treat a 6x6 as both sizes when I compose and shoot. With the Bronica I do lose the 6x6 unless I crop the image down. The result is a 4x4 or baby Rollei image size. Hence I treat the ETRs as a 645, 4x4 and 35mm.

While most would gasp at the thought of having a mf camera but use it for 35mm, I do it and have 2 35mm backs. The advantage is not having to worry about duplicating 2 systems, one with mf and 1 with 35mm. I learn on camera system and controls, lens strengths and weakness, and can put the dispsable dollars into building a complete setup.

The ETRS is a workhorse, bulletproof, shatterproof, long lived and great camera. The glass is excellent and having the shutter in each lens while when in production increased the price of a new lens over the competition that penalty no longer exists. An advantage is if a shutter seizes up which I've never had it only sidelines a lens and does not kill the entire shoot. A spar body is small and lightweight as the viewfinder, back and lens/shutter are all detachable. The body cost is almost a giveaway today.

Filter size is the same on most of the lenses so these added accessories so not require multiple sets as with some. If you are adventuresome, there are zooms and even a shift lens. Only the shift lens is on the Leica side of prices.

The series, ETR, ETRS and ETRSi, all take the same backs, speedgrip, motor drives, and so on so there is plenty of used pieces floating.

Some say the camera is a bridge between the 35 and mf size and maybe it is but I think of it as a mf plus one of the best 35mm systems out there since a bridge system tends to have a conotation of compromise and the ETR series is not a compromise but, allows one to build almost any configuration you can feel comfortable with. Yes, add an AEII or III finader and a speedgrip and it handles like a 35mm slr but that ain't bad as the configuarion is comfortable for those used to that design. Pull the speedgrip and finder and sub on the waist level and you have the same viewing level as the Rolleiflex. Add the motor drive and AEII and you have no need to buy a pass to the gym (only half kidding, it is a challenge but I've spent days out there shooting with the setup). Have a favorite film no longer available in 120 but is in 35mm, just swap backs or vce versa.

The beauty of the system is it can be light enough to carry as a daily carrier, a nice kit, not much larger than a decent 35mm, a great studio camera. Add a rotating finder and the extension tubes and think about a 645 macro system. Amazing results.

Only downsize to the camera is shutter is not anywhere near quite. You and the subject will know when you hit the button but, that is not uncommon with mf. Happily, the Rollei T is there for those times as I usually carry it also loaded with some film not in my Bronica backs.

Do I love it, yes. Is it perfect, no. But, it and the Rollei T and my Leica CL is all I need to be a very happy man.

Many wedding photographers I've observed and known use the ETRs as their exclusive camera and even further back to ETR bodies and beat them to death seemingly never having a fear of failure. A few months ago I attended a wedding where the photographer was using an early ETR that was almost totally showing no black paint any longer. We spoke for a few minutes and he told me he had bought the system new when he first set up shop and has used it continually ever since as his main body. He has a backup ETRSi in the case, in the original box but he told me he's never had to open it. No lense or shutter has ever failed. He is considering going digital but thinks he may just retire from doing weddings instead as he sees it as a dying business shifting to digital HD movies instead and he's not interested in learing a new craft.

 

[EcoLeica]

I recently swapped my Rolleicord Vb for a bronica ETRS (Chrome version) setup and I have been blown away. It is such a nice camera to use (even though its a little loud) and the negatives are just stunning

Here are some of my results

http://stevetingphotography.blogspot.com/2010/12/summertime-and-medium-format.html

http://stevetingphotography.blogspot.com/2010/05/in-safe-hands-production-stills.html

The advantage of this system is that it is fairly cheap for lens, also as my friend a former wedding photographer said that the reason why they were so popular in the wedding industry is that they are 'bullet proof' and so simple to use.
Give it a go before considering anything else

 

[filmfan]

If I were you and into shooting medium format portraits, I would sell everything and just get the nicest Rolleiflex you can afford from the funds. I liked the Pentax 6x7 with that 105mm lens as well, but it's just so big. I like the small compact size of the Rolleiflex better.

 

[jbielikowski]

Bronica is small, Mamiya is BIG. Sell everything and buy 2.8D.

 

[imokruok]

I feel this way sometimes about my Mamiya Pro TL 645. I use it as I would a 35mm SLR, but part of me always thinks about selling everything to go entirely 6x6.

I like but don't love the 645 format - I just don't seem to naturally see in those dimensions, at least not horizontally. Nevertheless, it's the camera I'm shooting with the most these days because of price, reliability, toughness, ease of use, and the interchangeable backs. And with the large negative size, I can always get a good crop if I want to go square.

If you don't like tripods, don't get an RB/RZ. They are huge. I almost bought one on whim because of a great price online, but had never handled one in person. I quick ran over to my local shop to take a look and was seriously shocked at how much bigger it was than I expected.

 

[PatrickT]

Thanks so much for all of the feedback.

The point is well taken about the size/weight of the RB/RZ, especially since I don't like tripods. I've decided to strike those from my list (at least for now).

I'll put several rolls of film through the Bronica and see how I like the handling, image format, etc. If, after that, I'm lukewarm on it, I'll probably sell it and use the money for another Rolleiflex.

It does seem like a very well designed and built camera system...bulletproof. I actually have a feeling that I'll end up enjoying this thing very much... 🙂

 

[dazedgonebye]

I have the Bronica SQ-a...very much like the ETRS but 6x6.
Great system.
Sometimes, the interchangeable back makes it the only way to fly.

 

[imokruok]

Sometimes, the interchangeable back makes it the only way to fly.

I love the flexibility of the interchangeable back to go between different film types, although, I will say it's less of an issue between *speeds* than I thought it would be.

The new Portra 400, in my opinion, is a real multiple ISO film. You can overexpose several stops and it doesn't make a bit of difference, and you can underexpose and still get a great image with scanning and post-processing. All on the same roll.

 

[farlymac]

I used to have a Mamiya C330F Pro outfit, with all the lenses and hood/prism variations, but always wanted to get into 645 due to the interchangable backs, and SLR build. The ETRS was one of the options I was thinking about back then (I still have a brochure in the archives). One thing not mentioned so far in all of this is the fact you get more exposures per roll using the 645 format, and the portrait/landscape orientation choice missing in 6x6, which just wastes film. I still use 6x9 cameras for this reason, but you have to use a lot of rolls to get the same count as a 645. My current 645 is a Zeiss Ikomat 520, but I don't shoot it in the cold, so I'm waiting for the spring to see what it will do. I may start looking at Bronica's again.

PF