Members only?????

[bmattock]

nope.. just think of the song Moon River, then take away the River

Oh, I get it now! Sorry, I thought that was your hat. Silly me.

 

[ch1]

Good old Bill.

Ever the "rabble rouser".

Now he wants a "probationary period" before someone can "qualify" as a RFF'er. I'm sure there will be "loyalty tests" too.

Used to be you just needed an interest and, preferably a RF camera. Now you are going to have to meet Bill's qualifying criteria.

But now we have rules, requirements, regulations and requisite probationary periods! This is "organization".

What's next, Bill? Are we all supposed to earn our "RF stripes" to sew on to our official RFF Brown Shirts?

 

[RML]

I'd say "members only" but only because I can't come up with a method that I would really prefer. I'd like to do business with a member that actually partakes in this site, who joins in the discussions and the fray, who opens up to the rest of us, and to whom I can relate. I just did a fab deal with both RBiemer and JoeFriday. Why? Because I got to know them from their participation in this forum, and had no doubts I was dealing with some good guys. Buying and selling is a matter of trust, and trust you can only build up by being an active part of this community. Problem is, how do you "enforce" such a thing before someone can do business, either as a seller or a buyer? I don't have the answer. The only reasonable answer right now seems to be to make the classifieds section "members only".... but I'm not going to vote for it. I can't justify it enough for myself because it won't give me the trust in the "other" that I need to do business with him/her.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I voted for members only to view the Classified ads.

As far as post count, etc, just because I post an item for sale at RFF does not mean that it MUST go to the first person that responds. It is not a binding contract. If someone joins, has never posted, and wants to send a personal check and demands immediate shipment or use Paypal -or something else that makes me uncomfortable- I can always say NO or retract the item from sale.

Better than Ebay where I have received bogus Paypal payments.

 

[jaapv]

Yes, definitely.

I'd not just put a post count. Anyone can flood post in a very short time. This has been seen by one or two members who err... like to ask the odd question and sort of post to err.. let me say prompt a reply of sorts.

So I'd suggest a combination of the two, a modest postage count, over a modest time. Say 30 posts over 30 days whichever comes sooner (with a minimum time limit of say 15 days). This way the less prolific poster can still be an active member. Gives us a chance to get to know and welcome new members without the opportunist kit dumper. Its just an idea. Any thoughts?

This sounds like a very good idea to me. Maybe we could even create a "trusted members" pool to evaluate equipment if so desired or help with escrow-like services. However, on second thought, that might have legal consequences.

 

[Kim Coxon]

Hi Bill,
I don't see it quite like this. With your proposal for a year's probation it works like this: There you are in the bar and a guy walks in. He's done 20 years in the military but you don't know his face. He therefore has to sit in the corner for a year until you do and then he can join in. Why not invite him to join in straight away. Then if it proves that he has no service background, was navy or doesn't have anything useful to say (SLR user) you can ignore him.

I see RFF more as the bar not a circle within that bar. It may be the bar in town that is favoured by the ex military guys and there may be a circles of ex marines, army, navy and flyboys. They all share something in common but maybe not everything. If a new guy comes in, they may feel a bit awkward until they find the "right" circle but then he keeps coming back. If he doesn't fit in with any of the circles, he leaves. You don't need a sign saying "Ex-Military Only" on the door.

Members only says they can't drink on the sidewalk. Once they are in the bar, it is your choice whether you drink with them or not. Why make rules and complicate things, increasing the workload on Jorge and Joe, if we don't have to.

Kim

Hey, I met up with a bunch of prior military service guys in a bar once. We started talking war stories, having fun, laughing and joking, etc. One guy came up, wanted to join in. He always wanted to have joined up, but never got around to it. His brother was a serviceman, etc. He didn't understand why he wasn't just accepted as part of the group. He said we were being unfair and he got mad and left.

Hey. You either pack the gear or you don't. You paid the price or you didn't. I'm sorry life is unfair.


Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[ch1]

"I would never want to Join any club that would have me as a member.!" 😀

- with apologies to Groucho Marx

 

[EricC]

Initially I was thinking 'yes, for members only'. But now, after reading the thoughts of some (Ray, Brett, Fred, Joe, flashover etc..) I feel their arguments are impressive. So I'm going to vote NO.

After reading Little Princes post and all of the other members who so elequently voiced their opinions, I would also like Jorge to change my vote to NO if that is at all possible.

I initially voted YES, yet i suppose i am one of the guilty ones, having been a member here for 2 years and only having 21 posts to my name, and therefore by my own reasoning should not have been able to post any adds myself :bang:

Eric.

 

[Gipsy]

I remember when every one was a new member. It is simple YOU ARE A MEMBER OR YOU ARE NOT. If you registered and you want to post a FS in the classifieds do so. I don't have to read or respond to any post. The date you registered and the number of post you have made are clearly visible.

Now back to the question the restriction of the classifieds to viewing by registered members only. I vote NO.
The forum is thriving because of two things content and traffic. The sponsors list is growing because of traffic and product association. Membership is on the increase because people find the content worth taking the time to register. There are times when guest outnumber members. Go look at the FS post check the number of views and the number of responses they create interest. Your idea was to one day make the site self supporting or maybe even profitable. So why would you want to restrict content and change something that is working?

 

[lynn]

A wholehearted NO!
This wonderful place elitist and exclusive? Tsk. What a shame that would be....
I came here - way less than a year ago - with a hunkering for knowledge and inspiration and with the best of intentions. Doesn't the sincere niceness here tend to thwart the chaff before it runs rampant anyhow?
(And Bill can make all the funny noises he wants, but I know that I would not have taken kindly to a years probation. )
Also, since it was mentioned: I think an SLR/TLR forum - a fine one, like this - would be brilliant.

 

[flashover]

Hay how do I change my vote, or is this like an election. Once cast your stuck. I see a turn in the tide. I should of read more before I voted earlyer. Other fourms like FM require you to be a menber to view the FS board. That's the only requirement though, no waiting time or post level.

 

[Socke]

Hm, I'm undecided. I think viewing to all, the seller can decide if he accepts a customer, and posting to members would be okay.

 

[bmattock]

The forum is thriving because of two things content and traffic.

I disagree. Content yes, traffic no. More does not equal better. It is just more. More good, but also more bad. More intelligent discourse, more trolls and wankers.

The sponsors list is growing because of traffic and product association.

True, dat. However, the sponsors' metrics will be based on increased sales. If said trolls and wankers don't also buy stuff from them, then the sponsors will eventually quit sponsoring. Short term, sheer numbers may help. Long term, I don't think you can predict that.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[JoeFriday]

I remember when every one was a new member. It is simple YOU ARE A MEMBER OR YOU ARE NOT. If you registered and you want to post a FS in the classifieds do so. I don't have to read or respond to any post. The date you registered and the number of post you have made are clearly visible.

Now back to the question the restriction of the classifieds to viewing by registered members only. I vote NO.
The forum is thriving because of two things content and traffic. The sponsors list is growing because of traffic and product association. Membership is on the increase because people find the content worth taking the time to register. There are times when guest outnumber members. Go look at the FS post check the number of views and the number of responses they create interest. Your idea was to one day make the site self supporting or maybe even profitable. So why would you want to restrict content and change something that is working?

wow, Gipsy... at the rate you post here, you'll be able to start buying and selling in about 4 more years when your post count gets into double digits 😉

 

[bmattock]

A wholehearted NO!
This wonderful place elitist and exclusive? Tsk. What a shame that would be....
I came here - way less than a year ago - with a hunkering for knowledge and inspiration and with the best of intentions. Doesn't the sincere niceness here tend to thwart the chaff before it runs rampant anyhow?
(And Bill can make all the funny noises he wants, but I know that I would not have taken kindly to a years probation. )
Also, since it was mentioned: I think an SLR/TLR forum - a fine one, like this - would be brilliant.

Exclusive and elitist are not dirty words. Inclusive to the extent of letting in all the riffraff is PC, but it is also rather self-selecting for a set of lowered expectations.

As to whether or not you would have "taken kindly" to a year's probation. I have to ask - so what? If I get upset and decide to leave, so what? This place will no more suffer if I leave than it would if you did. There are already all kinds of rules in place here. Jorge doesn't like angry fights about religion (for example). If that bothered me enough, I guess I could say "Well, if you're going to smother my right to freedom of speech, I guess I'll leave." So what? Everyone has to decide for themselves if the rules are too onerous for them to abide - and if not being able to post a for sale ad for a year is such a problem that you just can't bring yourself to stick around - then buh-bye.

Harsh words? You bet. And I'll bet everyone agrees with me in their hearts, although those who must cowtow to a higher PC power will shriek (but they agree with me too). The world knows it - we all want equality, justice, and righteousness - but not in MY neighborhood. This is no different. Our secret shame is that we all want what WE want.

I call it the 'lifeboat theory'. Here's how it goes.

When your ship sinks, and you swim to an empty lifeboat, you're glad to have it. And if you're a decent person, you will then go about trying to rescue others. And everyone will have a grand old time doing the right thing, being inclusive rather than exclusive.

Until the lifeboat reaches capacity. Then things change.

The first people to venture the concern that the lifeboat is getting too full to take on any more survivors will be shouted down. They'll be seen as bad guys, trouble-makers, and just plain evil. Others will shout that if so-and-so is excluded from the lifeboat, then THEY will get out as well in protest.

But the lifeboat will get fuller and fuller, and then it will begin to take on water. There truly is no more room. If more people get in, the lifeboat will sink, and that becomes obvious to everyone.

At that point, those onboad the lifeboat decide that being exclusive and elitist is not so bad after all. If someone has to die, they'd prefer it not be them. Some might take the road of chivalry, but in general, people tend to prefer to survive if they can.

As those who cannot get on the lifeboat become more desperate, they will begin to foment and plot and plan to take over the lifeboat, tip it over and get rid of those evil greedy elitists. And those on board will begin looking around for weapons to defend themselves with.

No, this is not a lifeboat. No, no one is going to drown here. But the fact is this - at some point, EVERYONE will agree - no more unregistered members posting for sale listings. Or limitations on posting (photos, ads, comments, etc). Or whatever restrictive behavior is needed to keep the lifeboat from sinking.

So be PC. Be inclusive and shun the nasty exclusive and elitist people. Someday soon, you'll be one too. Everyone acts in their own perceived best interest in the end.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[lynn]

Oh dear. Are we talking Titanic here? I wasn't.
No room at the Inn? Oh dear, again: different allegory.
I hate the first-post-Leica-for-Sale ads too. "Get LOST" (with adjective), I think. But that's what EVERYONE thinks, and the guilty give up.
What I'm saying is: I may be acceptable in a year, but I'm just as acceptable now..as far as I can see.

 

[Warren G]

Surely its not the quantity of posts that would count,but the information and experience shared in the postings. How you qualifiy that, I do not know.

Best,

W.

 

[NoTx]

Honestly, members only on a classifieds section just makes sense. Keeps security a little higher, you know.

 

[bmattock]

This is a simple throw back to pack mentality and feeding order. Later associated with the good old boys club.

The eternal cry of the left back. Consider me not impressed.

I for one resist being reclassified to a second rate statues by anyone.

No one is suggesting you are second class anything. Just a restriction. Joe can lock threads - you can't. Are you second class to him? Why can't we all be sysadmins? Wah! We're not allowed to upload more than a certain amount per day to the gallery. Wah! We have to wait sixty seconds between posts. Wah! We're all second class to Joe! I'm gonna hold my breath.

Why would I ever join anything knowing I would be required to play second fiddle to some pompous ass simply because of seniority.

I'm still looking for the downside here. Should I be sad? Are we being deprived of your wonderful self?

I mean seriously. First of all, no one, including Jorge, is taking my 'one year' suggestion seriously except me - so I doubt it has much chance of happening. Second of all, even if it did, so what? If you're saying that this place would be just terrible if you could do everything you can do now - EXCEPT you could not post FS listings for a year - then what you're actually saying is that's what you really want to do here - that's what is important to you. And the community should value your contribution for what again?

If you want to go, go. My pompous ass will be just fine with it. Hehehehehe.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

What I'm saying is: I may be acceptable in a year, but I'm just as acceptable now..as far as I can see.

And what I'm saying is that such a restriction has nothing to do with how acceptable you are. And no one is seriously considering implementing my Master Plan for Everything, as far as I know - so this is just idle chit-chat and philosophical debate. And last but not least - we were not talking about anything except restricting the ability to post FS and WTB listings. Normal posts would be fine to read and create.

Why is a time-based restriction on buying and selling so onerous? Do you burn with secret desire to become a 2nd-hand RF tycoon?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks