Members only?????

[rover]

... My pompous ass will be just fine.... Hehehehehe.

Your pompous cute ass Bill. 😉

Honestly your suggestion and argument for a time requirement is interesting, but simply doesn't work. At least a year is way too long.

Think of it, RFF has only been in exhistance for 2.5 years. How many members did we have in the first 18 months? I don't know the answer, but if we had 1000 I would be surprised. We now have over 4000. A year's membership requirement will shut out potentially as much as 3/4 of our membership, and in essence kill our marketplace.

 

[NoTx]

I do not believe a time limit makes sense... but people shouldn't surf as guests for shopping in my book. It just seems that this opens up possible problems for sellers. Now... I do not know if this has been a problem, and if it hasn't, then I may be way off base.

 

[bmattock]

Surely its not the quantity of posts that would count,but the information and experience shared in the postings. How you qualifiy that, I do not know.

Best,

W.

That's part of the reason why I suggested time-based criteria to buy and sell, with a one-year minimum.

In one year, people learn so much from just lurking that they know what scale focusing is - for example. So they tend not to post that eternal question. Or the "is film really dead" question. Or the "what's the best rangefinder" question. So when they do ask a question, it often makes sense to ask, and is often thought provoking and makes an interesting thread.

One year's membership makes you someone who is willing to show up, even if you do nothing else. Tends to weed out the hit-n-gits, because they have no patience. 90% of life is showing up.

Ah well. I'm unfair, I'm a member of the 'good old boy's network', I'm a pompous ass. I'm elitist and exclusionary. I'm good with that.

I submit to the tyranny of the mediocre.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Stephanie Brim]

I think that this is getting blown out of proportion by some people. All this is asking is whether or not it is a good idea to have people log in to the forum before they can view the classifieds. This is not trying to come up with some elitist plan to disallow new members to do anything. Everyone needs to take a step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine the original intent of the post.

Having to be a member before you view classifieds isn't going to be a huge deal, really. You have to be a member before being able to PM the people to ask about the items anyway and there are a *lot* of cases where an email option isn't offered. It isn't going to be that much different. It will bring more new people in (hopefully) and allow all of us (buying and selling alike) just a bit more fraud security. It may or may not also help a bit with those people who register just to buy something and then never talk again. They won't be able to base their membership decision on the classified section anymore, but on the actual posts of the people here. I find this a good thing; the more people we get here with an honest interest in rangefinder photography the better the site will become.

 

[bmattock]

Your pompous cute ass Bill. 😉

Honestly your suggestion and argument for a time requirement is interesting, but simply doesn't work. At least a year is way too long.

Think of it, RFF has only been in exhistance for 2.5 years. How many members did we have in the first 18 months? I don't know the answer, but if we had 1000 I would be surprised. We now have over 4000. A year's membership requirement will shut out potentially as much as 3/4 of our membership, and in essence kill our marketplace.

First - shut out 3/4 of our membership from what? Buying and selling. Is that what RFF is all about? I mean, if it is, then great. But I suspect most people come around here for the discussions, not the marketplace. Nobody is suggesting that newbies be shut out from entering into lively debate.

Second - kill our marketplace? What marketplace? Seems like the classfieds are a courtesy that Jorge provides for those who want it here - and is potentially a lot more trouble than it is worth for him (imagining worst-case rip off scenarios complete with wild fang-toothed mall lawyers on a rampage). I'd see it as a massive liability, myself. But that's Jorge's call. I don't recall RFF being a 'marketplace.' From my point of view, so what if it gets killed?

If 1,000 members resigned in disgust because they could not buy or sell for one year - what members would we lose? I suspect those that primarily want to buy and sell. I don't see the downside. Is this just a numbers game?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[dcsang]

I think that this is getting blown out of proportion by some people. All this is asking is whether or not it is a good idea to have people log in to the forum before they can view the classifieds. This is not trying to come up with some elitist plan to disallow new members to do anything. Everyone needs to take a step back, take a deep breath, and re-examine the original intent of the post.

Bingo Steph.

I also belong to a site for "professional" photographers that required me to join up, pay $100 USD, and had such suggested rules as having to wait a year or 6 months before moving from the "newbie" forum to the "pro" forum.

To be honest with ya, it did make me feel a bit like a child at first but I understood why that rule had to be there. That being said, guess where I spend most of my time.. RFF of course 🙂

Dave

 

[rover]

First - shut out 3/4 of our membership from what? Buying and selling. Is that what RFF is all about? I mean, if it is, then great. But I suspect most people come around here for the discussions, not the marketplace. Nobody is suggesting that newbies be shut out from entering into lively debate.

Second - kill our marketplace? What marketplace? Seems like the classfieds are a courtesy that Jorge provides for those who want it here - and is potentially a lot more trouble than it is worth for him (imagining worst-case rip off scenarios complete with wild fang-toothed mall lawyers on a rampage). I'd see it as a massive liability, myself. But that's Jorge's call. I don't recall RFF being a 'marketplace.' From my point of view, so what if it gets killed?

If 1,000 members resigned in disgust because they could not buy or sell for one year - what members would we lose? I suspect those that primarily want to buy and sell. I don't see the downside. Is this just a numbers game?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

Yes, I am speaking specifically of the classifieds and not the community in whole. Though, our discussions and posts very often are gear and GAS related, and thus the two, the classifieds and entire community, are intimately connected.

More than anything else, I think a year is much too long. I don't like the idea of any barriers other than membership sign in, but a nominal # of posts is a more palatable suggestion in my eyes.

And what marketplace, well many members buy and sell here seeing this as a safer haven than other places on the internet. Your suggestions will help protect this safe haven no doubt, but by potentially drastically limiting those who can view them, there would be no sense in listing items or to seek for items for sale. A bigger audience leads to more sales and availability of items.

I don't think your intention is to eliminate the classified ads here. If it is then I think that is a different topic. But many of us buy and sell to eachother, that is a marketplace.

 

[bmattock]

Yes, I am speaking specifically of the classifieds and not the community in whole. Though, our discussions and posts very often are gear and GAS related, and thus the two, the classifieds and entire community, are intimately connected.

Eh, I could take or leave the classifieds. I realize I'm in the minority here.

More than anything else, I think a year is much too long. I don't like the idea of any barriers other than membership sign in, but a nominal # of posts is a more palatable suggestion in my eyes.

Minimum post requirements lead to numerous 'hello world' posts, any stupid thing just to make the number required so that someone set on selling or buying can then get on with it. Time is time. The lazy and the crooks have no patience. Can't weed 'em all out, but it will do more than a few.

And what marketplace, well many members buy and sell here seeing this as a safer haven than other places on the internet.

A) Mistake number 1. It ain't safer. In fact, there are fewer safeguards in place.

B) Second - crooks love that perception and work it like a big round bootie. Yeah, drop your guard and let me send you this money order from the Bank of Ooga Booga. I'm a fellow member, trust me!

Your suggestions will help protect this safe haven no doubt, but by potentially drastically limiting those who can view them, there would be no sense in listing items or to seek for items for sale.

OK with me. And our 'safe haven' has largely been because we were undiscovered country. Now that we're going gangbusters, watch the fraudsters and the crooks come flooding in. Seriously.

A bigger audience leads to more sales and availability of items.

To what end? Jorge doesn't make a dime on these sales, does he? He provides the free forum, and gets squat from exposing himself to an angry mall lawyer whose client has been bounced around like a bunny.

Who cares if more people buy and sell here? Do those people ALSO contribute to the conversations and the quality of the site? I'd say they're just leeches, taking and not giving, and we'd be well rid of them if that's all they're going to do.

I don't think your intention is to eliminate the classified ads here. If it is then I think that is a different topic. But many of us buy and sell to each other, that is a marketplace.

I guess I don't care enough about the buying and the selling. Fair enough.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[ch1]

This the most amazing bunch of lunacy. Almost 90% here want to limit readers of classifieds (i.e. the buyers) to members!

If I am selling something I want the largest number of potential buyers to see my item! Why would I want to limit buying to members only?

If this kind of thing happens - I'll be sure to use eBay or P.Net for selling before here!

READ THE POLL QUESTIONS AGAIN, FOLKS !!!

I'm glad most of you here are not in charge of my business!

 

[rover]

I think you mentioned above that you were the only one taking your 1 year requirement seriously. Maybe so, and after all, only Jorge's opinion, or will to act as he did based on this poll, matters. At least he asked and what is done is done, until it changes if it ever does.

Thanks for the debate.

 

[bmattock]

I'm glad most of you here are not in charge of my business!

If your business was giving away a buying and selling platform with no way to extract profit from that model, it would not be a very good business. Lots of dot coms finally figured that one out.

If we're talking common sense from Jorge's point of view, it doesn't make much sense to even have a classified ad section, as far as I can see. All I seem to see as an argument for it is "it brings in more people." And is more better, or is more just more?

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[FrankS]

I'm thinking that more registered users translates directly into greater advertising revenue for Jorge.

There may even be a formula in place based on number of registered users, to calculate the cost of advertising.

 

[brightsky]

I'm thinking that more registered users translates directly into greater advertising revenue for Jorge.

There may even be a formula in place based on number of registered users, to calculate the cost of advertising.

B-I-N-G-O

This is the only plausible reason to institute required registration for viewing.

 

[ch1]

Bill,

You seem to be posting at a five to one rate compared to anyone else in this thread. I haven't checked to see if you've begun responding to your own posts, but wouldn't be surprised.

I think we get the message that you feel passionately about this critical issue. (sarcasm intended).

Outta here.

George

 

[c.poulton]

if a probationary period (and that's exactly what we're describing) is implemented, here's what will happen to many new members.. they'll come here to learn about RF's.. great idea, we all agree

then they'll decide that whatever they currently own isn't doing it for them (gee, that never happens here, does it?) so they become enamored with a Leica AK47 or Canonelle QL71.. and the old timers here are selling them back and forth to each other just to have something to do during the day.. but the newguy can't buy one because he's the equivalent of a high school freshman

I know my enthusiasm for RFF would die the moment I discovered I wasn't a real member

the only way I see this as working is if the time-limit was fairly short.. perhaps 2 weeks.. maybe combined with a 10 post minimum.. that would stop the instant sellers.. but not be enough to turn off potential contributors

I agree - we don't want to create 2nd class membership.

Is there really such a 'bog' problem with the classifieds - restricting viewing of the classifieds to members will generate new membership, but do we really want these sort of members who are ONLY interested in buying and selling - surely that's what e-bay is for?

You will also find that the membership will increase but that these new members never contribute to any of the forums - they become members only to view the classified threads - perhaps only once and then never visit again. OK the books show the site has so many thousands of members, but how many of these members will regularly read and post contributions?

IMHO

 

[flashover]

If it a done deal G'man right let it pass

 

[sf]

I agree - we don't want to create 2nd class membership.

Is there really such a 'bog' problem with the classifieds - restricting viewing of the classifieds to members will generate new membership, but do we really want these sort of members who are ONLY interested in buying and selling - surely that's what e-bay is for?

You will also find that the membership will increase but that these new members never contribute to any of the forums - they become members only to view the classified threads - perhaps only once and then never visit again. OK the books show the site has so many thousands of members, but how many of these members will regularly read and post contributions?

IMHO

I like this point. In fact, it really sways me more into no territory. Actually, I always assumed that you'd have to have an account in order to post anything or send PMs. . . I suppose I was wrong about that. But I still think that closing the classifieds might just seal off the process a little more, and help make it more of an RFF tradefloor rather than an open door for resellers, etc.

You know, if this turns out to be a farse, there is no reason it cannot be reversed by vote as easily as it has been enacted.

 

[back alley]

g'man is right, the deal is done.

nothing more to see here...

joe