Micro 4/3rds Pen leak

rover said:
You obviously know a great deal about this camera. Why be frustrated? Time will tell what the features and demand are for this new beast. It may be revolutionary, or it may be a white elephant. Oly has made their bed with it. If they are right great, if not, someone will come up with the next new best thing since sliced bread in about 2 months.
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Yeah I agree 100%, I guess you could say I'm frustrated with it because I really want Oly to do well with it.

I won't post any more re: viewfinders or argue about it unless someone directly addresses me about it. All the information is in this and the other thread, I've put a lot of stuff into them, I won't go on beating the dead horse that is the viewfinder argument.

Cheers. :)
 
CLE-RF said:
Now, when mounting a lens like that, would it defeat the point of the Pen retro styiling, or would it not?

I rest my case.

Enjoy the 'Pen', Gavin.
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It would definitely defeat the point of the retro styling, because everybody knows the original pens didn't have big telephoto lenses ;)

Telephoto Zuiko lenses for the original Pen system:
150mm f4
250mm f5
400mm f6.3
800mm f8 Mirror
 
Pickett Wilson said:
It's a simple choice for Olympus, and other digicam makers for that matter. It's cheaper to make a camera with no finder. So they make more profit. Mix that with the lust of the camera buying public for tiny, jewel-like P&S cameras, and you have cameras too small to be of much use.

Somebody posted that the camera was designed for a range of lenses from 10mm to 600mm. which would limit the use of a finder in such a small camera. Humbug. Mounting anything much larger than a small zoom on this tiny camera would be ridiculous. I'm not sure who the market is for this camera.

Can't wait to see a Noctilux adapted to this thing. ;)
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Well, the finder on the E-420 and E-520 are difficult to use (for me), and they are DSLRs, plus the finder on my Sony P&S is pretty awful as well. If they are going to give me a CL level finder, fine. If not, I might as well use the LCD to compose shots, or just wait and see what Samsung comes up with when the NX series comes out.
 
I haven't really heard anyone demand a TTL finder, just an optical finder. Without that conflation, this discussion becomes, hopefully, a bit calmer.
Rob
 
For giggles.

I packed a whole kit full of big, REAL cameras with viewfinders for the job I am currently on. Due to being very off the grid so to speak I went with overkill and brought a G10 as well. Not so REAL and external (gasp) finder (VC mini finder). Photography is not highly encouraged where I am and can be hazardous to ones mood so sometimes the little beasts can be crucial.

Well I have been here 2 (plus weeks) with another 30 days left (barring getting arrested and deported which seems common with foreign journaists). For 95% of the time I have used the G10. I have been a committed viewfinder guy for 20 years now and low and behold I have spent much of my time here shooting via the lcd?!?!
Trials of millitary hitmen, regional security forces headquarters, extortion by police, you name it! The G10 has made this possible.Any other camera and I assure you it would be "Midnight Express" West African style.

I guess what I am trying to say is all this talk of "serious" cameras and what not is nonsense. A serious camera is the one that allows you to take the shot and squeeze the best quality one can from the package. Sort of the spirit of 35MM really. Any of the shots mentioned above would NOT HAVE HAPPENED if the camera did not fit in my back jeans pocket. All this being said, I applaud olympus and will be eager to get my hands on one (I don't put a lot of weight into reviews). Bigger (much) sensor, fast handling? Count me in! Slide that viewfinder in and out as need be? Count me in!

Are folks dissapointed it has no optical finder built in? Sure they are however that most certainly does not relegate the camera to anything less than a potentially serious image maker!
 
Interestingly, reading what emraphoto says, some where I posted that I had such a great day with my M2 on Saturday. That is what has made me more interested in the Penny. No, zoom lens, hopefully some simple manual controls, in a small simple body with a good (should be faster than 2.8) lens.

Not a RF replacement, but a tool which may act like what I used a RF for.

I am obviously a much different photographer than emraphoto, but I am interested in learning more about the Penny.
 
I am glad when people find uses for novel cameras and they fit their needs so well. However, just because one form of photography works well for a photographer with an LCD to compose/focus does not mean it is therefore perfect for all things and all photographers.

"It works for me, therefore it works for you" is not a logical statement.
 
ermaphoto: point taken, but for that much cash I want the option of using either a VF or LCD. I can grab any old digicam and use the LCD. Both digicams in my possession actually have VFs (the little Casio has an optical VF, the bigger Olympus C-8080 has an EVF). Sometimes, yes, I can make do with just the LCD (and, as in your case, it makes more sense). But it doesn't cut it for someone to say "Ev'ryone else uses it, so deal with it." I know I can take it or leave it (and will likely leave it, barring some surprise), but it would be, for me, a disappointment if no VF option is offered on this puppy.


- Barrett
 
By no means would I say what works for me must of course work for others.

What I do contest is all the "real" and "novelty" business.

Running with that, albeit in reverse, it can be argued that beacuse it doesn't fit ones needs does not instantly relegate the camera to a less than serious image maker.

I was only offering the opinion that these cameras can take very important and powerful photographs. And sometimes the design/size constraints can easily become an advantage with an open mind.
 
emraphoto said:
By no means would I say what works for me must of course work for others.

What I do contest is all the "real" and "novelty" business.

Running with that, albeit in reverse, it can be argued that beacuse it doesn't fit ones needs does not instantly relegate the camera to a less than serious image maker.

I was only offering the opinion that these cameras can take very important and powerful photographs. And sometimes the design/size constraints can easily become an advantage with an open mind.
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I agree that the camera is a 'serious' one and not a toy or a novelty. I would be very happy if the upcoming 'Pen-like' camera had an optical viewfinder in it. It doesn't. I get that. It doesn't make the upcoming camera less serious, but it makes it less attractive to me (and apparently a few others).

I am interested in the 4/3 concept, and I'm fascinated with the directions Olympus and others are heading in their attempts to exploits niches that might also turn out to be useful to me. I have said I want an optical viewfinder, and it is my understanding that the manufacturers read forums such as this one - if that's the case, then I'll have to say it a lot.

I'm glad it's working out well for you. I'm hoping at some point there will be a new model that will affect me the same way.
 
I hate to recomend such a middle of the road approach but here's what I would like.

Wide Angle Lenses
Prime Lenses - Bright Line finders for each.
Zoom Lenses - EVF Low cost ($100)

Normal - Short Tele Lenses
Prime Lenses - Bright Line finders with parallax adjustment
Zoom Lenses - EVF High Cost ($500) as you will be focusing from it

Long Tele Lenses
Prime & Zoom Lenses - EVF High Cost ($500) for the same reason as above

B2 (;->
 
CLE-RF said:
As a closing argument, let me just repeat once more what got me into this discussion in the first place: not having any viewfinder would defeat the point of the Pen retro-styling.

Now, when mounting a lens like that, would it defeat the point of the Pen retro styiling, or would it not?

I rest my case.

Enjoy the 'Pen', Gavin.
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Says who? Man, styling is about style, sometimes having a logical (to some) relationship to function and industrial design, but that relationship is not always 1:1. Since a digital Pen will have a crop factor compared to 35mm film, it DOES make sense. I guess it depends on what you consider the "purpose" of the styling. If you work for Olympus, then I'll be very much obliged to be informed. I'm not trying to be combative, it's just that your statement is pure opinion --- IMO.

Ralph: You kinda prove my point with your M2 experience. I can see LOTS of people, including the market in between "casual shooters" :eek: and advanced amateurs/pros being happy with this camera, one or two primes and a clip-on finder. I think that market is bigger than we may think, and certainly we see things through RFF-coloured glasses, er ... finders.

We also tend to presently see things through the lens of a global recessions. So as far as price goes, I agree there will be a point beyond which sales will be hurt, but it may be higher than we might imagine, and so far everything is speculation anyway. Everyone in my office that come to me asking about "upgrading" to a better digital p&s has complained about two things:

-- shutter lag time
-- low light performance

Granted these people are not in an income bracket to spend $900 on a body with a prime lens, but that's just because of the type of environment in which I work, where the hourly folks are not at the top of the scale. Those of us who are exempt employees can mostly afford it, even if it takes some sacrifice. When I bought my OM-1 w/ 50/1.8, I was dirt poor, but I did what it took to get it. Then I did what it took to buy the 100/2.8, then the 35/2.8. Then the ... :D
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned before or not, but I could have sworn I read somewhere that Olympus was going to release two micro 4/3 cameras. This one appears to be the base model and the other one will be more fully featured which I take as having a viewfinder maybe a slightly different control scheme or something of the sort.

I think people need to stop getting their panties in a bunch and just wait and see in the next week what is announced..
 
And just to be clear: I want an optical viewfinder. That it will not be built into this camera (as far as we know) is a drawback, but it is not necessarily a deal killer for me. If this camera can do what I hope, it will kill my use of OM bodies. Seriously. For film I will have an M body and 2-3 primes (which can also be used on the "E-P1"), a good wide for the "E-P1" which will be for light carry on the street plus macro colour, family snaps and when I really need the immediacy of digital, and the Toyo for "real" photography. If I get an "E-P1", I will be done.

Hey Frank, bookmark this post!
 
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