allen_a_george
Established
I'm using a CL with a 40mm Summicron-C. I'd always subscribed to the (1/focal length) rule to avoid camera shake, so I was surprised to see some photos I'd taken @ 1/60, f/8, ISO 400 have visible camera shake in them.
Isn't 1/60 a reasonable shutter speed to avoid camera shake even when taking quick shots?
Isn't 1/60 a reasonable shutter speed to avoid camera shake even when taking quick shots?
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
it depends on the focal length of the lens used, the type of camera used and especially the person behind the camera.
some people have a hard time getting an unblurred photo at 1/250 of a sec. with a 28mm lens.
some people have a hard time getting an unblurred photo at 1/250 of a sec. with a 28mm lens.
allen_a_george
Established
Well, I'm using a 40mm. And taking photographs in cities - people moving around; perhaps at a bit of a clip, but definitely not speedwalking.
I'm surprised to hear of blurred photos @ 1/250 with a 28mm lens to be honest . . .
I'm surprised to hear of blurred photos @ 1/250 with a 28mm lens to be honest . . .
iamzip
Ambitious, but rubbish
Of course it depends on the particular situation, but generally speaking 1/60 is the slowest I'll handhold and I don't usually have problems at that speed. Sometimes I will even handhold at slower speeds, but then it's a gamble
retnull
Well-known
Apparently Cartier-Bresson gave up coffee, to be able to handhold at slower shutter speeds without shaking.
myoptic3
Well-known
You are probably going to need 1/250 or higher if your subject is not still. Generally, 1/350 is needed to freeze motion, but 1/250 should do it w/ a 40 lens.
angeloks
Well-known
As a rule of the thumb, 1/(focal length) can be fine. 1/60 can do it with a 50mm. If you are good or lucky, 1/30 can do the trick. For 15mm, 1/15 can sometimes to it, but then people will often be blurred by their motion.
allen_a_george
Established
Thanks guys - I didn't realize that I needed at least 1/250 to stop people moving. If the subject is still I can handhold reasonably to 1/15 - but that's best case scenario; I'd have to line myself up, take my time, etc. Very different when I'm trying to get the shot quickly.
Another question: is everyone able to take a quick shot of an unmoving subject at 1/60 without camera shake?
Another question: is everyone able to take a quick shot of an unmoving subject at 1/60 without camera shake?
usagisakana
Established
I can handhold down to 1/30th with the 40mm lens on my himatic and most of the time get sharp shots. But of course, you get some shots blurred every once in a while. Very occasionally I need to shoot at 1/15th, and even then you can sometimes get lucky and get something reasonably sharp. Then again I am fond of the effects of slow shutter speeds and blurring, so often shoot at 1/15th or lower to get that effect.
mfogiel
Veteran
I have done a test with a Bessa, and IF you are completely steady, and you push your elbows against your chest, hold your breath and shoot between your heartbeats, you can get razor sharp photos 7 out of 10 times 2 speeds below the focal length and 9 out of 10 1 speed below the focal length, which would be about 1/8th and 1/15th, BUT if you are moving and your subject is moving when you take the shot, you will need AT LEAST 1/250th, more likely 1/500th with a 40mm to get a 100% sharp shot - I got lots of blurred photos at 1/250th with a 28mm when shooting from the hip in the crowd.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Shoot while exhaling gently -- a trick I was taught many years ago, and MUCH more stable than holding your breath.
Slouch against a wall if you can, and don't hold the camera to your eye too long.
If you're not shooting immediately, hold it up; check the framing; pre-focus; then lower it again until just before you shoot.
1/focal length is a good rule of thumb, but the longer the lens, the more optimistic it becomes: I don't like to shoot a 200mm lens even at 1/250, and I prefer 1/1000. At the other end of the scale, I've successfully hand-held 21mm at 1/15 and even 1/8, and 15mm at 1/8 and even 1/4.
If you can sit or kneel down, brace your elbows on a table or wall, and rest the camera against your forehead, that can give you another step or two on the shutter speed dial.
Remember the variables. Are you tired or well-rested? Hungry/thirsty or well fed and watered? Calm or excited? Have you just been running...?
Finally, remember a simple truth. If you don't play, you can't win. Better to risk a blurred shot (you might get lucky) than not to shoot at all.
Cheers,
R.
Slouch against a wall if you can, and don't hold the camera to your eye too long.
If you're not shooting immediately, hold it up; check the framing; pre-focus; then lower it again until just before you shoot.
1/focal length is a good rule of thumb, but the longer the lens, the more optimistic it becomes: I don't like to shoot a 200mm lens even at 1/250, and I prefer 1/1000. At the other end of the scale, I've successfully hand-held 21mm at 1/15 and even 1/8, and 15mm at 1/8 and even 1/4.
If you can sit or kneel down, brace your elbows on a table or wall, and rest the camera against your forehead, that can give you another step or two on the shutter speed dial.
Remember the variables. Are you tired or well-rested? Hungry/thirsty or well fed and watered? Calm or excited? Have you just been running...?
Finally, remember a simple truth. If you don't play, you can't win. Better to risk a blurred shot (you might get lucky) than not to shoot at all.
Cheers,
R.
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payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
You could do a search for "camera shake". Many threads on the subject. As xayraa33 says, there are several variables. While I am generally safe down to 1/4 sec. with a RF or a film SLR and a normal or wide lens, and if I have a way of bracing myself, I find that I can seldom hold my digital SLR as steady.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Camera shake and movement blur seem to have got somewhat mixed up in this thread.
For a Leica CL with 40mm lens I'd be happy going as slow as 1/30 for sharp, and 1/4 if need be and accept the shake.
For a Leica CL with 40mm lens I'd be happy going as slow as 1/30 for sharp, and 1/4 if need be and accept the shake.
oftheherd
Veteran
Without realizing it you may also have become a little lax in your method of tripping the shutter. Check to be sure you haven't gotten off track with that. It's easier than you think to slip and begin pulling the camera with your trigger finger.
If not, go back with what has been said above.
If not, go back with what has been said above.
allen_a_george
Established
Thanks everyone - I appreciate the advice. I'll go back to basics and focus on my technique.
JNewell
Leica M Recidivist
Assaf
Well-known
The minimal shutter speed is related to the focal length, but also to the camera and its shutter.
Different cameras gives different "shakes" for the same speed, due to the shutter mechanism, the camera build and its weight.
I can tell that I shot 1/30 and even 1/15 on an M6 with 50mm withought a noticeable blur. On the other hand on CL + 40mm the 1/30 shots were not totally sharp.
Different cameras gives different "shakes" for the same speed, due to the shutter mechanism, the camera build and its weight.
I can tell that I shot 1/30 and even 1/15 on an M6 with 50mm withought a noticeable blur. On the other hand on CL + 40mm the 1/30 shots were not totally sharp.
bambamphoto
Member
View attachment 66558I don't know where the inverse of the focal length came from...have heard it for years...but the following photos are acceptable to me and all were shot at slower than 1/15. They are all Leica CL with a Summicron 40/2...a camera build the way God intended it.
The shots are a bit grainy of my friend in his chair and the street shot as they are TRIX pushed to 1600, but you can see in the shot of the leaf that the shutter speed was slow...the raindrop propogates nicely.
I agree with the exhale theory.
Cheers,
Jay
The shots are a bit grainy of my friend in his chair and the street shot as they are TRIX pushed to 1600, but you can see in the shot of the leaf that the shutter speed was slow...the raindrop propogates nicely.
I agree with the exhale theory.
Cheers,
Jay
Attachments
Livesteamer
Well-known
I do a lot of kid photos in the church nursery I work in. For a long time I shot my M3 at 1/60 at f4 with a 50 Summilux thinking the extra dof would help. The results were not great and after reading Erwin Puts I shifted to 125 @ f2.8 and the results were much better. For snapshots I will shoot much slower but if I want good results I try to keep my shutter speed up. I'm 52 and perhaps not as steady as I was. Also, don't spend an hour running the chainsaw and then expect to hold a slow speed well. Joe
photogdave
Shops local
The CL's shutter has more vibration than an M shutter it seems to me. I can definitely shoot with slower shutter speeds on an M than my CL. Try a soft release - it may help.
Also, I'm not sure why some people are giving absolutes for stopping moving subjects. It depends on how fast the subject is moving! A person walking across the street can be frozen at 1/60 if they are walking slow enough. I've only used 1/1000 when I was a sports photographer!
Also, I'm not sure why some people are giving absolutes for stopping moving subjects. It depends on how fast the subject is moving! A person walking across the street can be frozen at 1/60 if they are walking slow enough. I've only used 1/1000 when I was a sports photographer!