Minister 700 lemonade

[pjetter]

Not sure if I got a lemon but I guess I'm trying to make lemonade now. At an auction I got this camera for $6. Cosmetically it's an A- or a B+, very little wear.

The first fault I could discover is lack of the yellow focusing square. (I do not suspect someone tampered with it because when I lifted the top cover everything looked original-the degraded foam washer, cardboard cover, etc).

I made the classic mistake of (accidentally) setting the self timer while the MX sync selector was still at M while I was playing around with the LVS ring and testing the shutter. The shutter and winder lever both got stuck. I've since disassembled the front lens and discovered that the little S spring (clutch?) in the self timer mechanism is bent out of shape. (Considering my options here).

In experimenting with the shutter now that it's exposed, it seems to be sticky, not 100% stuck. Since the film winder is still in the stuck position, the only way I can cock the shutter is by manipulating the mechanism in the front element. I'm planning to remove the entire lens assembly to get rear access to the shutter and properly clean it / check for defects and hopefully fix the winder.

So I have a few questions after reading a bunch of Minister D "guides":

1. I'm 99% sure I need to peel of the leatherette in order to remove the shutter mechanism. Is this true? If so, what's the best way to peel off the leatherette so that it can be reused? Should I use a solvent, heat or something else?
2. Will removing the lens plate also give me access to the winder/shutter linkage? I suspect a blockage there.
3. How do I get the yellow focusing square back? 🙂 The camera is kind of useless without that!

 

[btgc]

Hi here! I like your approach 🙂 let's figure out what kind of lemonda you can make.

I haven't hadled any of Ministers but to me 700 looks like close predecessor of Lynx 5000 and if outer appearance isn't misleading, then:

1. You would need to pull leatherette to remove whole lens assembly. To take off only shutter without focusing helicoid, key is to take off slotted ring from film chamber. But if there are wires from body to speed and aperture rings, you are in trouble and you have to detach 'em on either end, but camera end usually is easier. On model 5000 contact is made by using carbon track and spring so they detach nicely....wait, this is just to access mechanism without fully removing.
2. -
3. Sometimes mirror falls off and patch disappears. If something rattles when you shake camera, it's usually mirror. But Lynx 5000 has rather weak patch so there are chances yours has faded too much. Or someone has tried to clean semisilvered piece in RF mirror and removed silvering - but then you most probably see it's not uniformly bright.

Chances are you can work shutter without fully removing from camera, just by gaining access to mechanism and first putting tiny amounts of lighter fluid to ends of shafts, firing shutter and then by applying even less very light oil to shaft of long speed escapement. This is assuming blades (shutter and aperture) aren't dirty which most often calls for full removal and cleaning piece by piece.

 

[pjetter]

Thanks, that kind of confirms what I've found so far regarding the lens assembly. I've taken a second look at Stuart Willis page. Seems like if I have to deal with the winder/shutter linkage I will most likely need to take the lens plate of entirely. (I can't discover any other fault in the winder either on top or on the bottom).
Also, I've done the lighter fluid thing. The shutter seems really gummed up and I'd rather give it a thorough cleaning and make it absolutely dry before reassembly.

The question remains, what's the best way to take of the leatherette so as not to damage it?

As for the rangefinder. Since this is the first time I've looked at the internals of an RF camera I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to find.
Here's a closeup of the rf patch of my Minister:

Does it seem as if that patch is missing something? Should there be a mirror there? I held a piece of aluminum foil in front of it and saw a bright yellow spot appearing in the viewfinder.

PS. What kind of voodoo is needed to post an image? It's 640x480 on Flickr.

 

[pjetter]

I found an image of a rangefinder mechanism of an Electro 35 and I can clearly see a piece of glass which is missing on mine. I'm assuming it's a mirror with the reflective side on the surface 🙂
It would be nice to know the thickness of this piece! It looks like it's the same thickness as the larger mirror...
Pfff... nice easy beginner project!

 

[btgc]

To me it looks mirror is missing. It should be glued to rectangular metal piece sitting on round base.
Cheaper built fixed lens RF's had mirror glued/cemented instead of mounted into frame. Had to deal with this on Lynx 5000 and Konica Auto S and S2, latter two are notorious for fallen mirror syndrome. If original mirror is retained and fastened in place without adding depth of cement (e.g. put cement on sides) you can go even without RF recalibration. Missed that on KAS2 but managed on KAS - focus is spot on. If you find mirror of different thickness you can still use it, assuming you calibrate RF afterwards.

 

[pjetter]

The mirror is gone (unless it's now jamming the winder/shutter linkage somewhere 🙂
I was thinking of making a new reflector with the exact same dimensions, but gold plated, like a polished earring hanger cemented on plastic.

 

[btgc]

The mirror is gone (unless it's now jamming the winder/shutter linkage somewhere 🙂
I was thinking of making a new reflector with the exact same dimensions, but gold plated, like a polished earring hanger cemented on plastic.

Is it possible to figure out dimensions of absent piece? If only by traces it has left (doubt) or by math calculations at a given distance but that could be out of my skills.

Anyway, you'll test how substitute forms image and probably that could work and at lower price that buying parts camera for just a mirror. Haven't tried that myself and will be interested to read how it worked out.

 

[pjetter]

I can't know the thickness, but I dare to guess that it's the same thickness as the larger mirror (from photos from an Electro 35 I linked earlier).

 

[btgc]

I can't know the thickness, but I dare to guess that it's the same thickness as the larger mirror (from photos from an Electro 35 I linked earlier).

Larger piece is semi-silvered translucent glass, small piece (absent) is a mirror. They aren't cut from same sheet as far as I see it.

 

[pjetter]

I realize they are different materials, but judging from the photo they seem to have the same thickness.

 

[btgc]

I realize they are different materials, but judging from the photo they seem to have the same thickness.

OK, if Minister's RF assy is same as in Electro then you have guide (which is great). Anyway cement adds some thickness if spread between mirror's back and metal post so you have to check coincidence it after repair anyway.

 

[pjetter]

Agreed. What about the leatherette removal, any tips specific to Yashica RF of this vintage? I want to reapply the original material so it is all original (except for the gold upgrade). Possible?

 

[btgc]

Normally it comes off in one piece if peeled carefully. Usually bottom and/or upper covers have to be removed or at least loosened enough as leatherette fits under covers. Proceed slowly and don't start with a sharp pointed knife, instead use something thin and smoothly shaped.

 

[pjetter]

I found the mirror! It was jammed inside the winder mechanism. I had to destroy the mirror to get it out, but there's enough of it left to measure the thickness 🙂

From what I've read, Yashica Ministers are not the easiest cameras to work on. But it's love at first sight. I feel like I'm making a lifelong friend!
Left to do: make a new mirror, clean the shutter, reassemble & adjust focus.

 

[farlymac]

Remember, that's a front surface mirror, so you can't make one out of any old stock. Old Polaroid 600 series cameras are a good source of mirrors for such, and also replacements in TLR's. Don't even think of touching the semi-silvered mirror in the viewfinder, as you could wipe it clear. Yashica didn't do the best job making them. Most of my older models, such as the YK, have almost no silvering left. To make a more contrasty rangefinder patch, you can slip a piece of colored plastic behind it's window port, like from a file folder tab. Yellow works best.

PF

 

[Frontman]

You can remove the leatherette by heating it with a hair dryer, it should come up easily enough. When reapplying the leatherette, apply glue to the camera surface, the back of the leatherette, and let the glue set for 20 minutes or so before installing the leatherette.

The shutter should be held together with three screws on the back side. Sometimes these screws are different lengths, so make sure to put them in the same place you removed them. Soak the blades in paint thinner, clean the surfaces they contact with paint thinner or lighter fluid, using a cotton swab. The contaminated metal looks bluish or rainbow colored, clean until the normal metal finish looks clean. When installing the shutter blades they sometimes like to fall into the center. Keep your thumb on the first blade as you install the rest. For five pins there may be 5 or 6 shutter blades, if there is a sixth, it goes in the sam position as the first one.

Avod doing anything from the front side of the shutter, it is easy to bend or break things, a drop of lighter fluid on the slow speed mechanism is all that is necessary, but do this before cleaning the shutter blades.



Good luck,

 

[pjetter]

Thanks 🙂
I got quite far along, but getting access to the shutter blades for removal is still a puzzle.
front
back

Should I remove the retaining ring with 4 slots on the back?

 

[btgc]

I'd say it's inner two-slotted ring. EDIT looked one more time and it has one slot...hm, it not same as on KAS2 I have in a parts box. Either you need special tool to remove inner ring or there are big chances it's a ring pointed to by red arrow.

btw how it comes one blade is not visible? have you loosened two shutter halves, but then you wouldn't ask how to take 'em apart. Hope blade isn't broken (pin on the end).

 

[pjetter]

One blade is completely stuck. I've seen it before, but it got more stuck after I used lighter fluid. Rather than messing around more I decided to do a proper cleaning.
I haven't managed to disassemble any further than on the pictures.

The black ring has 4 slots. It's the only thing that looks like it can be removed. In that case I will have to make a special tool, maybe a pipe I can grind down with 4 bits sticking out.
The silver "ring" has no slots. I don't think the silver ring is a retaining ring.

 

[btgc]

One blade is out of place so lighter fluid is of no help here....let's hope no physical damage.

Long slim nose pliers (very ends) can be filed to go into slots. Two slots are enough.