Minolta 16II, Amazing little camera

[Timmyjoe]

Finally found a camera that will let me use my old B&W 16mm motion picture film stock. A Minolta 16II. I am amazed at the image quality coming out of a camera smaller than a pack of cigarettes, with a lens that is smaller than a pencil eraser.

C&C always welcome.

Would love to see samples from others who have shot with these Minolta 16 cameras. They're a fun little set up to use.

Even rigged a small flash unit that works with it. 😉

Best,
-Tim

 

[htimsdj]

They are great! I have a few of them, although I haven't run a cassette through recently.

With one of the cameras I purchased, I found it loaded with a cassette with all of the film on the "exposed" side. Figuring it might have something on it, I had it developed. There were three photos from the Vietnam War on it! I'll see if I can find them and post them later.

 

[Timmyjoe]

That is awesome! Would love to see them.

Before I got the camera I bought a couple of cassettes off the big auction site, that were supposed to be unused from the 1960's. They were both fully exposed and I found images on both. When I got this camera, it had a cassette of exposed color film inside, but when I processed that it came out completely black, completely exposed.

You can see the images I found on the two rolls at this link:
Look what I found . . .

Best,
-Tim

 

[zuiko85]

Fantastic job on your first use. Thanks for sharing these. I see you have the accessory shoe/tripod clamp, a very useful accessory. Are these from the Plus-X or is this still Double-X?

There are a few other useful things to tell you about the camera.
The focus is factory set to 2.5m (about 98 inches). You will find this a useful range for most shots and distant subjects at f16.
A very useful accessory to look for now is the lens set. This is a set of 4 slip on attachments consisting of three diopter lenses, two close up and one distance lens, and a yellow filter.
The #0 lens is a minus .25 and will bring focus out to 10m (33 ft.) for distance scenes at any aperture.
The #1 lens will bring focus to 1.3m (51 inches) for a moderate close up.
The #2 lens will bring focus to .75m (30 inches) for a head and shoulder type close up shot.

These sets are the only way to change prime focus on the camera. They should come in a round clear plastic case holding all 4 pieces. Make sure they are the right pieces and some one has not just placed 4 UVa filters in the slots. They are getting thin on the ground but I still see them occasionally on ebay. This set is probably the most useful accessory you can have for a 16II, especially the #0 lens for distant shots where you cannot stop down to f16.

That little 22mm f2.8 lens is usually very good. My very informal tests with some slit down Pan F indicates it will resolve about 50~60 LP/mm in the center even opened up to f4, not too shabby at all.

 

[Timmyjoe]

These were shot with the Plus-X I still have (7231). The camera came with the #1 filter which I mistook for a UV filter and wondered why my first roll was all out of focus, I thought, "Man, this lens is not very good." Then I looked at the manual and noticed the #1 on the filter and realized it was a close up filter. All is good now.

Best,
-Tim

 

[zuiko85]

That self portrait with the big 283 flash is a riot. I have a 285 but never thought to mount it on the 16II. I carry a very small old Vivitar 45, a single AA cell manual flash with an ISO 100 GN of 40 in feet. This flash uses Vivitar's regular PC cord so I don't have to have a hot shoe adapter with cord for this set up.

If you can buy/make a film slitter then all kinds of fine grain film is available for your Minolta. I have a couple of Ilford Pan F bulk rolls I got cheap because they were just out of date. I pull out 19 inches and pull through my slitter as necessary. I really would like to try a T grain film like T-Max 100 or Ilford Delta 100 but just never got around to buying any since I still have a lot of the Pan F. I also have about 80 feet left of 16mm Bluefire Police film and it is really grainless but I ran out of the special developer and when I tried it in regular developer it came out with almost zero grays, just black or clear on the neg. I read on the caffenol site of a formula for soft working caffenol for high contrast film that I'm going to try.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

BH has fresh 16mm movie film in bulks under good price.
Will this camera take this film?
Thank you, Ko.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Ko,

The film that I found works the best with the Minolta 16II is the old 7231 and 7222 Kodak B&W negative film. 7231 is long gone unfortunately, but you can still get the 7222 from Kodak (it's the old Double-X stock).

The issue with the 16mm color film that B&H sells is that it has a remjet (sp) coating to keep light from bouncing off the pressure plate of a motion picture camera and double exposing the film. This coating is removed by processing houses that do motion picture film processing. If you run that film through a film processing machine like the ones at Walgreens or Cosco, it will gum up the whole machine (and really piss their employees off). So there really isn't any good way to process that 16mm color film.

As far as the 16mm B&W reversal film that B&H sells, that may work for you, but you would need to work out a processing workflow for yourself, as it is a reversal film. It's also probably really high contrast.

I process the 7222 in just normal B&W processing chemicals (in my case Rodinal), and it works fine.

Good luck. The cameras are a lot of fun.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Thank you, Tim!
Cine film is no problem for me. I do 135 in ECN-2 kits at home.
Is it difficult to load film in this camera cassettes?

 

[Timmyjoe]

As long as you have the chemical needed to remove the remjet you should be OK.

Go for the single perf film, not the double perf. And I don't find loading the film to be an issue at all. Carefully razor blade open a cassette, cut an 18" or so length of 16mm film, tape one end, emulsion side in, to the little spool on the takeup side inside the cassette, and curl up the unexposed length into the feed side of the cassette, then tape it back closed. Very straight forward.

 

[zuiko85]

Thank you, Tim!
Cine film is no problem for me. I do 135 in ECN-2 kits at home.
Is it difficult to load film in this camera cassettes?

I've always used a 5/16in. wood dowel, about 6 inches long, with a 16mm long slot cut into one end with an Xacto razor saw. Then slip one end of the film into the slot and spin the dowel, emulsion side in, guiding the film with your thumb and forefinger running along the edge to make a nice tight roll that you slip off the end of the dowel and into the feed chamber leaving about 1.5 inches sticking out of the light trap. Then put the cap on the feed chamber and the rest you can do in room light. Tape the film to the take up drum, slip that in the take-up chamber and put the cap back on. Secure both caps with a bit of blue masking tape. As long as you don't wait over 3 months the blue masking tape is easy to remove.

I don't know why you would have to razor blade open the caps, they are secured with tape, just peel it off.

Do you have developing reels that can take 16mm wide film?

 

[Timmyjoe]

I don't know why you would have to razor blade open the caps, they are secured with tape, just peel it off.

I've got cassettes from the early 1960's through the late 1980's, from a number of different film manufacturers. Some of the tape is easy to peel off, some of it is like cement. The ones like cement, I use a razor blade to separate the cassettes from the covers.

I agree, the blue "painter's tape" works really well when taping the covers back on the cassettes.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Picked up a Minolta 16QT this past week. Supposedly it had been sitting in the back room of a camera shop and had never been sold. As usual for these old cameras, the shutter assembly was locked up from dried, gummy internal lubrication. Was able to get it apart and completely cleaned up. Was even able to make a substitute battery for the now defunct PX-30 the camera used to take. And to my delight, it now works as new. Even the light meter is accurate.

Here's an image from the first roll of Double-X I ran through it, exposure based on the internal light meter. One other nice thing about the 16QT, you can focus this camera, it has four settings from close up to infinity. Unlike the 16II, which has the little lenses you need to put on the front for different focus distances.

The Double-X is pretty grainy, especially in this tiny negative size. Hope to load up some Plus-X to try later this week.

Fun little camera.

 

[zuiko85]

Finally checked this older thread to see what you were up to with 16mm film. Did you ever shoot the plus-x in the QT? For some reason I cannot see the sample photos in the body of your last post. Might be problems with my I-pad.
The bigger negative of the QT is some help in resolving detail, you don't have to enlarge it as much. That said I have looked at several QT's through the years, perhaps 4 or 5 and never found a working sample, even when they appear 'mint' on the outside. Too bad, I would like one for its bigger negative and ability to focus the lens. Looking forward to any more posts on your 16mm experiences.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Hi Zuiko85,

Something got screwed up with the images and the first two have disappeared into the internet ether, but the last image is there. Haven't shot any Plus-X through the QT yet, just been too busy with other projects. I do like the bigger negative, and especially the ability to zone focus the camera. And the built in light meter. After opening the camera up and cleaning out the dried lube, she now works very reliably. And after making the adapter, the light meter now works with a common 1/3N battery. So it's a great little camera to carry around in the pocket.

Best,
-Tim

 

[oftheherd]

The first Minolta 16 I ever saw was when I was in the 82nd Abn Div at Ft. Bragg in 1961 or 1962. We were practicing for a visit from Then president Kennedy. We were all amazed at this little camera a guy pulled out of his pocket and then began using. He told us he got it while stationed in Okinawa. In 1962 I went to Okinawa, and saw one in the PX for something like $25. I got one and used it a fair amount, and really liked it. Later, in 1967, I was in the 173rd in Vietnam, and we didn't have a crime scene camera. I used my father's old Welta Welti or the Minolta 16, whichever I happed to have when I needed crime scene photos.

The Minolta 16 worked amazingly well. I had all the attachments for it, including the cc filters and distance filters, and the flash. It was very easy to carry as well, which was kind of important at the time. I still have it and the flash adapter at home somewhere, as well as some of the filters.

 

[zuiko85]

After saying I'd never get into any submini camera smaller than 16mm, ie Minox, I gave in and in a weak moment bought a really clean IIIs at a photo show last April. The guy had several on his table and when I asked about price he said $40, my selection. It came with the measuring chain and original case. Of course I've spent almost double that on obtaining 6 film cartridges but by slitting and loading my own B&W film ongoing film cost is about $1 per load. The other problem, not having a developing reel was solved by heavy modification of an old Yankee plastic reel.

Scan or print, scan or print?
With no way really to scan the negatives I built a small enlarger and can print up to 3 X 4.25 inch prints, not very large but about what you get from standard processing and prints from Blue Moon camera. Once you get set up the Minox is cheap to run and unlike my Minolta 16 II cameras, it can be focused, even down to 8 inches and that is a nice feature, no need to carry close up or distance lenses like I have for the Minolta. On the other hand the lens opening is fixed at f3.5 so DOF at short distances is very narrow, you have to measure carefully.

 

[Timmyjoe]

So it uses the 16mm film as well?

That sounds cool. I like the QT because it too can focus. It has four settings, close-up, portrait, "standard" and infinity. I leave it on "standard" for 90% of the shots.

I was fortunate to find a couple stainless steel 16mm development reels which work great, but before I found them, I took a Patterson plastic reel and cut it down to take 16mm film. That worked pretty well too.

I'm also fortunate to have picked up one of the last new Nikon 9000ED scanners when they were still being sold as new, and even though they actually make a 16mm film strip holder for it($360, way too expensive), I use my Newton glass holder and just lay the strips down between the two glass elements.

Really fun and convenient cameras to shoot with. And the image quality brings back memories of my Instamatic that I used in middle school back in 1970.

Have fun with your Minox.

Best,
-Tim

 

[Nokton48]

I just found my Minolta 16MG! It was buried in a box in my studio. I had a relative who bought it from a PX in Vietnam (during the war) and it was gifted to me from his estate. I used it on my honeymoon with AG1 flashbulbs, then it disappeared. Now it is back. It has major sentimental value for me.

I have one 16mm stainless reel, and four Minolta cassettes, with the Minolta plastic storage boxes. I guess I should call Kodak and buy 100 feet of Eastman 7222. I am a huge fan of 35mm XX and use it all the time.

 

[Timmyjoe]

Very cool. Yeah, the 7222 is the same as the 5222 (just smaller). If you look at the shooting double x in a leica thread, there are development times and chemicals listed. I've found you can shoot 7222 at ISO 1600 and process in D-76 and get really nice results.

If you find the shutter not working properly on your 16MG, sometimes if you remove the covers and use a bit of lighter fluid, you can free up the gummed up lubricants. Just do it carefully.

I've got about twenty of those Minolta cassettes, most came with the QT from eBay (I actually bought the camera just to get the cassettes, then was amazed that the camera actually worked). I use a changing tent and load up all the cassettes at once. Then they last me about a month or so.

Really a fun system to use.