Modification to Leica M framelines

[damien.murphy]

Back to the point I'll keep an eye on this as I would love a less cluttered M6 viewfinder, M2 style.

Think that's definitely possible, with some people having some framelines masked when their M is being CLA'ed. Probably good to get as much done as possible when your M is lying in pieces waiting to be cleaned, lubed, adjusted and re-assembled.

Seems like an M6 could easily have the appropriate framelines masked to leave you with a 28/35/50 or 35/50/90 framelined M. A 28/35/75 would do me nicely, personally, especially with the quite decent-sized framelines for 50 & 90mm when paired with a high mag M.

 

[damien.murphy]

What's with all the modifying and hacking lately? :headshake:

If it makes you feel better, I currently shoot with an M3/ M4 combo, with any hacking restricted to one of the lesser M bodies 😉

Before I'm jumped on and garroted, the last line was with tongue firmly in cheek 🙂 Only reason I am considering an M-4P is on the basis that the framelines of an M-4P or M6 seem to be the most suitable to start with for modification, and of the two the M-4P is the cheaper, given current used prices.

 

[lic4]

I once asked Will van Manen if he could give me 40mm framelines in my M6, and he told me no. He said that the 35mm framelines are close enough.

 

[damien.murphy]

I once asked Will van Manen if he could give me 40mm framelines in my M6, and he told me no. He said that the 35mm framelines are close enough.

Do you know if it was just not possible/ possible, but not worth the expense or effort/ just that it didn't warrant consideration at all, given the utility of the 35mm framelines..

 

[damien.murphy]

Why not cut to the chase and contact directly either DAG or Sherry Krauter?

Definitely. Am still thinking out-loud however, with fleshing out possibilities the first priority, before contacting DAG/ Sherry with a definite line of inquiry.

Also, it would be nice to know if anyone here at RFF had anything similar done 🙂

 

[venchka]

Bubba had the M4-P and newer 6 frame set up. As I recall the 75mm framelines weren't exactly lines at all. More like corners. Somebody help me out here. What did the 75mm frame inside the 50mm frame look like?
My point: Be careful what you wish for. Find a camera with the viewfinder information you want first. Decide for yourself if they work for you.

 

[damien.murphy]

What did the 75mm frame inside the 50mm frame look like?
My point: Be careful what you wish for. Find a camera with the viewfinder information you want first. Decide for yourself if they work for you.

I have, my first M was an M6. You're right though, it is worth having a look at the M-4P framelines to confirm they are the same, or if not, manageable.

Re: 75mm lines on the M6, they're the usual broken line deal, can't remember if they had corners or not, but they didn't bother me overly and was able to infer the frameline from the broken line segments.

 

[peterlat]

40mm frame line

40mm frame line

According to the tests I've run, you already have a 40mm frame line in the camera. Your 35mm frame line only shows about 90 percent of what you'll get on the negative, unless you're focusing quite close. But if you're focusing at 10 ft. to infinity, the 35 frame lines match just about perfectly the angle of view of a 40mm lens.

I love rangefinder cameras, but the one thing that's always bugged me about them has been the inaccuracy of frame lines: you almost always get more on the negative than what you see in the finder--unless, of course, you're focusing very close or using slide mounts, which eat into the film area. It seems to be even worse with medium format. My Mamiya 7 frame lines only show about 85 percent of the actual film area. I've learned to compensate by framing my image, then moving forward a couple of steps. Sorry--that's probably more information than you could possibly want, but it doesn't take much to get me started on rangefinder frame lines.

 

[damien.murphy]

According to the tests I've run, you already have a 40mm frame line in the camera. Your 35mm frame line only shows about 90 percent of what you'll get on the negative, unless you're focusing quite close. But if you're focusing at 10 ft. to infinity, the 35 frame lines match just about perfectly the angle of view of a 40mm lens.

I love rangefinder cameras, but the one thing that's always bugged me about them has been the inaccuracy of frame lines: you almost always get more on the negative than what you see in the finder--unless, of course, you're focusing very close or using slide mounts, which eat into the film area. It seems to be even worse with medium format. My Mamiya 7 frame lines only show about 85 percent of the actual film area. I've learned to compensate by framing my image, then moving forward a couple of steps. Sorry--that's probably more information than you could possibly want, but it doesn't take much to get me started on rangefinder frame lines.

Lol, I hear you on the rf frameline inaccuracies, but personally would prefer to have a specific frameline for each focal length I shoot, and apply a standard method of compensation to each when I am shooting with it, rather than apply a series of varied compensations to each different focal length, if that makes any sense 🙂

 

[Kolame]

Damien, I don’t think he wants to compensate. He just wanted to show his experiences, which told him, that 35mm-frame-lines are, as he thinks, quite good for 40mm-shooting. Even better than for 35mm-shooting. I don’t know...

 

[peterlat]

I guess it all depends on your shooting style. A good friend of mine who uses Leicas shoots many of his pictures at very close focus, so for him the camera's frame lines are much more accurate than they are for me, a landscape guy. FWIW, here's his experience on accurate framing with a Leica: When shooting at 10 ft. or farther, the film will show one frame-line width beyond the outer edge of the existing line.

Now that I think of it, any sane person reading this would probably say we're good candidates for obsessive-compulsive therapy.

 

[lic4]

Do you know if it was just not possible/ possible, but not worth the expense or effort/ just that it didn't warrant consideration at all, given the utility of the 35mm framelines..

He didn't say; I didn't ask him because he just made it clear that it's something he doesn't offer as a service. I figured if he doesn't do it, then it must be a very complicated job, since Will van Manen does many custom modifications.

If you or someone does check with Sherry or Don, it would be good to put their responses on this discussion thread for others to have as a reference.

 

[damien.murphy]

FWIW, here's his experience on accurate framing with a Leica: When shooting at 10 ft. or farther, the film will show one frame-line width beyond the outer edge of the existing line.

Now that I think of it, any sane person reading this would probably say we're good candidates for obsessive-compulsive therapy.

Lol, I like the thick 50mm framelines in the M3 for this reason, and imagine this must have been Leica's reasoning in making them so thick on the M3. I feel its a pity they gave up this practice, although the eventual 6 frameline finders of M4-P onwards would probably have forced them to, in any case.

If you or someone does check with Sherry or Don, it would be good to put their responses on this discussion thread for others to have as a reference.

Yes, will do, that would be a good thing to know alright. Would probably save Sherry/ Don & co some time answering some of the crazy modification queries too 🙂