ramosa
B&W
what i want to know is can you readily tell the difference between b&w images printed at 11x14 taken with the MM vs. the M9? (or are the differences really only seen when you print larger?)
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Why? An average photographer will take average pictures, regardless of camera. I want to see what a GOOD photographer can do, so I have something to aspire to.
Cheers,
R.
Michel154
Established
i had a chance to try the MM for a day ,and found it to be a truly inspiring camera
but what i did not like is the amount os PP that goes in to the files afterwards
in order to emulate a film Tri-x fuji agfa or whatever one likes
felt like i was cheating on my film camera
but what i did not like is the amount os PP that goes in to the files afterwards
in order to emulate a film Tri-x fuji agfa or whatever one likes
felt like i was cheating on my film camera
icebear
Veteran
Sorry Godfrey but I Disagree....
on some Level PP is Involved if One Chooses
but I do Believe their is an Inherent 'Look' to the Camera's Sensor and what it Produces
Each Digital out there has a Certain Character
and then its up to the Photographer to Enhance or Minimize that Vision
Actually the more I think about it
Choosing your Film and the way You Develop gives You a 'Look'
I am sure that Sensors and the way they are Tweaked have a Look as well...
Hello Helen,
I'm not sure if you are the Helen from the Oct. meeting at Puck's Fair. ... Bloody Mary?
If you are, then you handled my Monochrom (blue Tom A. Softie & Sling finger loop).
Whatever get's shown on the internet is heavily processed and downsized for posting. Unless you have a raw file on your own calibrated monitor, you will not be able to properly judge what the MM can do.
Postprocessing in e.g. LR4 will determine the look. Depending on the exposure you have certain freedom to achieve whatever you like. Smooth tone and very subtle differences or bold contrast with rich blacks. It is up to your preference to tweek the raw file as you have decided to print you negatives.
In the Monochrome "best pictures" thread I posted a shot without any post processing, I am not sure if you have seen it.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=191859&ppuser=6650
This is just an example what comes straight out of the camera. You can call that a certain look if you will.
thegman
Veteran
I like the Monochrom, although I don't use digital at all at the moment. I won't get one, but I do admire Leica for making it in the first place.
It serves no real practical purpose, but why does it need to? It's $8k or whatever, but one man's $8k is another man's $100.
Nice camera, I think Leica has balls for making it, but I could spend $8k differently.
It serves no real practical purpose, but why does it need to? It's $8k or whatever, but one man's $8k is another man's $100.
Nice camera, I think Leica has balls for making it, but I could spend $8k differently.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
As, for example, on a darkroom.
I'm perfectly happy that my M9 has replaced slide film, but if I want B+W prints, I still prefer my film Ms.
Cheers,
R.
thegman
Veteran
If I had space, a darkroom, and perhaps a Walker 4x5 if I had time to use it.
raid
Dad Photographer
I have never used an MM, so I cannot say much about using this camera. I doubt it that I will ever buy one because B&W is not my thing really. Still, I am enjoying a newly found liking for B&W with the M8. It will have to do for me. The M9 is used for color.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
HELLO Icebear / Klaus
Haha... a Bloody Mary it was
Jeez, i had no Idea i actually held an MM
feel Quite Silly now :bang:
Now I really must try it again PLEASE ...
fully conscious
at the next RFF meetup
Lovely Shot You Posted / without PP ....Beautiful Girl, Beautiful makeup
and yes to me it just has that Mono 'Feel'... something kind of Rich & Lush with a Dark slightly Cinematic presence... Wonderful Indeed
I still firmly Believe
a Sensor has its Own Look
Then the lens with its visual qualities add to the Look
and finally the PP (if one chooses to Do it)
Just look at various digital cameras output BEFORE PP ...
some are astoundingly sharp...some less so
I have heard here at RFF that some people see the Files of the M8 to be Sharper than the M9
the M9 being Rounder & Softer
certainly the sensor must play apart in that
look at the Sigma DP' series...that FOEVEN sensor has a look All its own
I Feel that the Monochrom also has its own 'Look' before PP
Stylized with an Option to Heighten to a Grand level
Don't get me wrong I think the M is Outstanding
and on some levels is just okay
Again, kudos to Leica for creating such a marvel
Haha... a Bloody Mary it was
Jeez, i had no Idea i actually held an MM
feel Quite Silly now :bang:
Now I really must try it again PLEASE ...
fully conscious
at the next RFF meetup
Lovely Shot You Posted / without PP ....Beautiful Girl, Beautiful makeup
and yes to me it just has that Mono 'Feel'... something kind of Rich & Lush with a Dark slightly Cinematic presence... Wonderful Indeed
I still firmly Believe
a Sensor has its Own Look
Then the lens with its visual qualities add to the Look
and finally the PP (if one chooses to Do it)
Just look at various digital cameras output BEFORE PP ...
some are astoundingly sharp...some less so
I have heard here at RFF that some people see the Files of the M8 to be Sharper than the M9
the M9 being Rounder & Softer
certainly the sensor must play apart in that
look at the Sigma DP' series...that FOEVEN sensor has a look All its own
I Feel that the Monochrom also has its own 'Look' before PP
Stylized with an Option to Heighten to a Grand level
Don't get me wrong I think the M is Outstanding
and on some levels is just okay
Again, kudos to Leica for creating such a marvel
douglasf13
Well-known
- just expose for the highlights and pull the shadows up.
If you blow a hole in your image in the sun it is simply exposure error. I know - I learnt the hard way.
+1. That's basically how I shoot all of my cameras these days, including the M9. The camera's usable DR is simply a matter of how much you can bring up in the shadows. The M9 is good at this, and the MM looks even better. I'm sure the new M 240 will be better than my M9, too, but I don't run out of latitude THAT often, so I'm not sure if I need to spend more for the option.
Let's please respect others' opinions and keep the discussion on topic and civil!
icebear
Veteran
...
Now I really must try it again PLEASE ...
fully conscious
at the next RFF meetup
....
Hello Helen,
sorry I won't make it to the next meet up. I booked two lectures at the NJ PhotoExpo on Nov. 18th.
Best regards
Klaus
cam
the need for speed
hi, helen!
i totally agree with you about the sensor and, personally, i absolutely adore the look of it. it is an absolutely perfect marriage of my vision, capturing what i see, with far less PP needed than any other digital camera i've owned (except, perhaps, the R-D1).
i only used some older lenses on it (E58 Nocti, 50 Lux pre-asph, v.1 35 Cron) and was blown away with the tonalities i got in the shadows. very rich, very lush, with a sensuality of sorts like a melted mix of bittersweet, milk, and white chocolate. the sensor is pure decadence!
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Hey Cam,
So Wonderful to see You post again...have missed You !!
Pleased You too 'see' the Individual 'Look' of. Sensors'
Great to hear about your using a
Pre asph Glass & LOVING it on the Monochrom
Mitch called me last week .. (Asked about You)
He was in a Swoon over the Mono
Unfortunately he has not been able to use it much
But feels passionately that Leica made a Gem
He would be Blissfully Content with just his MM and his GRDiV
Well Best to. You & Kevin
Give me a Shout if You plan a Trip to New Yawk
xo- H
So Wonderful to see You post again...have missed You !!
Pleased You too 'see' the Individual 'Look' of. Sensors'
Great to hear about your using a
Pre asph Glass & LOVING it on the Monochrom
Mitch called me last week .. (Asked about You)
He was in a Swoon over the Mono
Unfortunately he has not been able to use it much
But feels passionately that Leica made a Gem
He would be Blissfully Content with just his MM and his GRDiV
Well Best to. You & Kevin
Give me a Shout if You plan a Trip to New Yawk
xo- H
Peter David Grant
Well-known
As an MM owner, I would say I choose it because of the size (being an RF, having used an M6), the time taken in developing the photos (not being film) but most importantly how it just gets out of my way. If a photograph is ruined, it was my fault. The exposure is up to me, the focus is up to me and there isn't any chips second guessing my intentions.
That all being said I guess its just personal, but isn't it always? Thankfully though, if we didn't think differently how boring would the world be.
That all being said I guess its just personal, but isn't it always? Thankfully though, if we didn't think differently how boring would the world be.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
Yes, you nailed it! Of course I only want to see the work of average photographers, the less skill the better!
/sarcasm
The meet-up is this Sunday the 11th.
eleskin
Well-known
MM $$$$$$$$ M$$$$$ M9$$$ M8$$ X Pro 1 $$!! All great for B&W !
MM $$$$$$$$ M$$$$$ M9$$$ M8$$ X Pro 1 $$!! All great for B&W !
MM files look great, but not all. Same with the M9, M8 and X Pro 1. It is a matter of taste and what you can afford. For me, the MM is very expensive to the point where used M9's are looking better to me. The M8 (which I have,) produces great files too for B&W but is older technology. I have also seen great B&W from the X Pro1 and to tell you the truth, may be my next camera, even after looking at the new Leica M at Photo Plus in NYC (That 35 f1.4 is killer for the price).
MM $$$$$$$$ M$$$$$ M9$$$ M8$$ X Pro 1 $$!! All great for B&W !
MM files look great, but not all. Same with the M9, M8 and X Pro 1. It is a matter of taste and what you can afford. For me, the MM is very expensive to the point where used M9's are looking better to me. The M8 (which I have,) produces great files too for B&W but is older technology. I have also seen great B&W from the X Pro1 and to tell you the truth, may be my next camera, even after looking at the new Leica M at Photo Plus in NYC (That 35 f1.4 is killer for the price).
cam
the need for speed
missed you too!Hey Cam,
So Wonderful to see You post again...have missed You !!
Pleased You too 'see' the Individual 'Look' of. Sensors'
Great to hear about your using a
Pre asph Glass & LOVING it on the Monochrom
Mitch called me last week .. (Asked about You)
He was in a Swoon over the Mono
Unfortunately he has not been able to use it much
But feels passionately that Leica made a Gem
He would be Blissfully Content with just his MM and his GRDiV
Well Best to. You & Kevin
Give me a Shout if You plan a Trip to New Yawk
xo- H
the camera is definitely swoon-worthy, especially with all the old gorgeous glass. it's the first digital, imo, with enough resolution to show their differences and character in all their glory.
the first time i got a chance to play with it was briefly at a store and ran over to the print area so i could shoot in the dark. i used the gorgeous woman who had been making M9 prints for me (most@2500) and when she saw what the Monochrom had done, she looked at me and said I had to get it and print really big
Paul Luscher
Well-known
I'm perfectly happy to stick with my M9. Frankly, for $8,000 I want a camera which shoots both B&W and color, so to speak. Yes, converting a color image to black and white may be winky-dink, as the article cited in the original post suggests, but so what? They look pretty good to me.
I think the idea that B&W is the province of REALLY GOOD photographers, and that only B&W photos are REALLY GOOD photos is a holdover from the 1930s--1950s, and the days of Leica users like David, Duncan, Eisenstadt, etc (which explains why certain M users will only load their filmers with B&W film and think that shooting color with a Leica is heresy). But I suspect that one of the reasons those giants of photography shot in B&W is largely because color film then was rare, slow, and likely expensive, not necessarily because of any aesthetic preference (and of course D. Duncan DID shoot in color, too).
But as I see it, that was sixty years ago, and no need to let the dead hand of the past dictate our idea of photographic excellence now. I used to be a proponent of the "only B&W is good photography" idea when I first started out. But then I realized that the human world sees in color, and that you CAN create photos just as striking in color as in B&W, if you're careful (and I might mention it may actually be HARDER to shoot in color than B&W--with B&W you can create a great photo with composition, form and tones. But even if you have all those elements in a color photo, it can fall flat if the colors are boring or ugly, or clash--which is why I sometimes convert to B&W).
So, to repeat, I may be a weenie, but for $8K, I want a camera that essentially gives me my choice of whether to go color or B&W. Don't want to box myself in....
I think the idea that B&W is the province of REALLY GOOD photographers, and that only B&W photos are REALLY GOOD photos is a holdover from the 1930s--1950s, and the days of Leica users like David, Duncan, Eisenstadt, etc (which explains why certain M users will only load their filmers with B&W film and think that shooting color with a Leica is heresy). But I suspect that one of the reasons those giants of photography shot in B&W is largely because color film then was rare, slow, and likely expensive, not necessarily because of any aesthetic preference (and of course D. Duncan DID shoot in color, too).
But as I see it, that was sixty years ago, and no need to let the dead hand of the past dictate our idea of photographic excellence now. I used to be a proponent of the "only B&W is good photography" idea when I first started out. But then I realized that the human world sees in color, and that you CAN create photos just as striking in color as in B&W, if you're careful (and I might mention it may actually be HARDER to shoot in color than B&W--with B&W you can create a great photo with composition, form and tones. But even if you have all those elements in a color photo, it can fall flat if the colors are boring or ugly, or clash--which is why I sometimes convert to B&W).
So, to repeat, I may be a weenie, but for $8K, I want a camera that essentially gives me my choice of whether to go color or B&W. Don't want to box myself in....