michaelwj
----------------
Just to clarify my previous post.
I don't hate digital, if it were my job, I'd be digital all the way. But its not.
Photography is a hobby, and I simply can't be f'd spending hours to 'get to know my camera', especially when it will likely be replaced in a few years. I'm sure the top Pro models are better with direct access to everything, but then I'd have to learn the placement of a billion buttons or I may as well be going to a menu anyway.
I work in high end X-ray microscopy, where 100 fps is slow and 16 bit dynamic range is laughed at. I don't want my hobby to be like that too. Film is more relaxing for me.
I don't hate digital, if it were my job, I'd be digital all the way. But its not.
Photography is a hobby, and I simply can't be f'd spending hours to 'get to know my camera', especially when it will likely be replaced in a few years. I'm sure the top Pro models are better with direct access to everything, but then I'd have to learn the placement of a billion buttons or I may as well be going to a menu anyway.
I work in high end X-ray microscopy, where 100 fps is slow and 16 bit dynamic range is laughed at. I don't want my hobby to be like that too. Film is more relaxing for me.
I wish they would make a simplified M43. My Oly is hell to adjust. I just shoot it on the dummy setting. It does nice work, but I can't adjust it on the fly.
Georgiy Romanov
stray cat
Isn't P mode cheating ?
If you hack your way through six pages of menus before every shot, people say "you should use film to make your life simpler".
But ..... If you set P mode to make your life simpler, people say "you are not a photographer".
:bang:
I have P mode even on my film cameras! O_O important thing is that it doesn't prevent me to do great images! People strange beasts... If your keep things on life simple they don't belive you. They often want to hear deep philosophy and heavyweight answers. I always smiling on that. :angel:
leicapixie
Well-known
I actually hate digital.
One needs menus (ugh!) and all manner of nonsense.
My fingers DO NOT make screens work!:bang:
So i-phone and similar is out!
I use digital, but it's out of need not choice.
i use simple Point and Shoot Compacts.
I shoot JPEG, will not use any camera that uses RAW.
I will not use Adobe,Lightroom or any Photoshop except Google Picasa.
I tried out a Better, bigger camera that the results were so BLUE.
Salesman said easily cured in a Photoshop.
It was returned..
I way prefer the simplicity of my Leica-M or a SLR with film.
The joy of opening a tank seeing the wet negatives, or a print appearing in developer, has never had that magic.
A small test! After exposing a number of frames over a period make small sketches of what one shot.
Film, I remember almost all.
Digital, only an occasional image..
One needs menus (ugh!) and all manner of nonsense.
My fingers DO NOT make screens work!:bang:
So i-phone and similar is out!
I use digital, but it's out of need not choice.
i use simple Point and Shoot Compacts.
I shoot JPEG, will not use any camera that uses RAW.
I will not use Adobe,Lightroom or any Photoshop except Google Picasa.
I tried out a Better, bigger camera that the results were so BLUE.
Salesman said easily cured in a Photoshop.
It was returned..
I way prefer the simplicity of my Leica-M or a SLR with film.
The joy of opening a tank seeing the wet negatives, or a print appearing in developer, has never had that magic.
A small test! After exposing a number of frames over a period make small sketches of what one shot.
Film, I remember almost all.
Digital, only an occasional image..
Richard G
Veteran
Bill, here is a link to a thread I started on mode problems. Lynnb came up with an interesting problem he had. He was the only respondent. My premise was that the Leica M2 has only one mode, although more if one considers the different types of film, and whether there is film in it at all....
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138626
The M9 Leica and the Monochrom have a User Profile setting that is useful in reference to manu complexity. If I shoot with the 21 Zeiss lens, I have that selected in the Lens menu manual selection. I might want to get some quick slow shots at night with the self timer, so I might have adjusted that to 2s instead of 12s. I also might have the shutter cocking sequence set differently. Because of colour fringing with the M9 and 21 I might have the camera set for RAW plus JPEG fine with those set to Black and White etc etc. So one of my user profiles is just to set the camera back to factory defaults and a 50 Summicron, my most used focal length. That is a nice crutch to have. I don't know if other cameras have such a quick menu-selection-undo function.
In reference to Leicapixie's post just up from this, I used most of the rest of a roll of Ektar in the M2 at the weekend. Indeed I do remember what I shot and how much more carefully I went about it. Interesting.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138626
The M9 Leica and the Monochrom have a User Profile setting that is useful in reference to manu complexity. If I shoot with the 21 Zeiss lens, I have that selected in the Lens menu manual selection. I might want to get some quick slow shots at night with the self timer, so I might have adjusted that to 2s instead of 12s. I also might have the shutter cocking sequence set differently. Because of colour fringing with the M9 and 21 I might have the camera set for RAW plus JPEG fine with those set to Black and White etc etc. So one of my user profiles is just to set the camera back to factory defaults and a 50 Summicron, my most used focal length. That is a nice crutch to have. I don't know if other cameras have such a quick menu-selection-undo function.
In reference to Leicapixie's post just up from this, I used most of the rest of a roll of Ektar in the M2 at the weekend. Indeed I do remember what I shot and how much more carefully I went about it. Interesting.
Richard G
Veteran
Lost a good photo from this morning. Last night I took out the memory card, and against my habit and better judgement I put the baseplate back on the Monochrom. I don't know why. I think so the cat would not be tempted to flick the baseplate on the floor. Three shots this morning of the cat and an apple in buffer with no card, and that card washed with my shirt I now find. Battery flat this afternoon and one good shot of Felix gone forever. I MUST NEVER PUT THE BASEPLATE ON WHEN NO CARD IN CAMERA. Makes me think Leica's baseplate on the digital is not such a bad idea after all.
The point about menus is not that you can't master them, but that you have them and may have been in them, and when things don't work as expected, you don't know what that might be due to. A quick look at two dials and a quick twist of one other for tension and all "menus" of the M2 have been interrogated and information processed in about 1.5s. My mode problem with the Monochrom this morning is that I could take a couple of photos, falsely assuring me all is as it should be. I missed the alert that there is no 'film' (SD card) in the camera.
The point about menus is not that you can't master them, but that you have them and may have been in them, and when things don't work as expected, you don't know what that might be due to. A quick look at two dials and a quick twist of one other for tension and all "menus" of the M2 have been interrogated and information processed in about 1.5s. My mode problem with the Monochrom this morning is that I could take a couple of photos, falsely assuring me all is as it should be. I missed the alert that there is no 'film' (SD card) in the camera.
sleepyhead
Well-known
I, like many previous film shooters, also find most digital cameras overburdened with features and menus that "get in the way".
This is why my first and only serious (i.e., not a P&S) digital camera is the Leica M9. I use it seamlessly alongside an old M3 body with B&W film inside, and generally share lenses between the two.
Bliss!
This is why my first and only serious (i.e., not a P&S) digital camera is the Leica M9. I use it seamlessly alongside an old M3 body with B&W film inside, and generally share lenses between the two.
Bliss!
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
I've noticed here in Oz that any time I see someone using a film camera they always seem to be wearing thongs, flip flops, slip on shoes etc and it always mystified me?
Then the penny dropped ... if you can't figure out the menu of a digital camera then it's pretty unlikely you're going to be able to tie a shoelace!
:angel: :angel: :angel:
Then the penny dropped ... if you can't figure out the menu of a digital camera then it's pretty unlikely you're going to be able to tie a shoelace!
:angel: :angel: :angel:
Ljós
Well-known
I'm with you in principle, but... RFF is also ripe with stories of Pulitzer-prizeworthy ;-) pictures taken with unloaded filmcameras. So something comparable could very well have happened with an M2, too. Adding insult to injury of course would be to find out that not only was the memory card missing, but the lens cap still on, too ;-) ;-)
Greetings, Ljós
Richard G
Veteran
All true alas. But my tension mention there was of the rewind knob. My only no film exposed experience was with an M5 where I misloaded. Lens cap on with the M9 is a real real pain.
sleepyhead
Well-known
michaelwj
----------------
You got me Keith. It's like you've been stalking me! The only laces I own are on my running shoes, and not even all of them.
I try not to wear any shoes really, it's just work and cold that forces my hand.
Those are some of the better menus out there though...
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
Spanik
Well-known
All that and battery life. How I wish for a digital MTL-5.
Sparrow
Veteran
OK! ... so what, exactly, is wrong with slip-on shoes?! ... it'll be beards next ... and crocks, that's how these things always start
.. and my mate, sorry bro in the apple shop has most of those things anyway, and I'm sporting a rather fetching pair of navy suede loafers as I type ...
.. and my mate, sorry bro in the apple shop has most of those things anyway, and I'm sporting a rather fetching pair of navy suede loafers as I type ...
willie_901
Veteran
Honestly I'd rather use a menu parameter that disables the shutter when a card is not detected in the slot or happens to be write protected. All three brands I've owned have this option and I'd be surprised if Leica doesn't as well.
For me it is not a burden to set this parameter within 10 minutes of taking the camera out of it's packaging and never touching it again.
pluton
Well-known
I like professional cameras. I got spoiled way back in the 1970's by the professional cameras of the day such as Nikon F and F2(without built-in meter). They weren't very expensive, either.
In the modern age, one of the requirements to qualify as a "professional" camera is that during operation, all needed controls are accessible for direct manipulation by the human hand, without the need of plunging into menus.
As examples, my current SLRs, Nikon D800 series, meet this criterion.
My current "small, more portable" camera, the Fujifilm XE1, does not.
In the modern age, one of the requirements to qualify as a "professional" camera is that during operation, all needed controls are accessible for direct manipulation by the human hand, without the need of plunging into menus.
As examples, my current SLRs, Nikon D800 series, meet this criterion.
My current "small, more portable" camera, the Fujifilm XE1, does not.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Ah ... my only other digital camera was a Canon ...thought the menu was pretty straight forward on that.
I mostly used that in manual mode though.
Slip on shoes ... least said the better
daveleo
what?
Ah ... my only other digital camera was a Canon ...thought the menu was pretty straight forward on that.
I mostly used that in manual mode though.
Slip on shoes ... least said the better
Ahem ..... I have 10 pairs of slip-ons
. . . laces are for walking shoes, slip-ons are for hanging around, looking ever so cool.Their loose fit also reduces the stress of cycling through camera menus.