More tragedy at Olympus

[chikubi]

i agree, now more than ever the view on suicide in Japan is closer to what it is in western countries (ie. it's far from honorable).

Yes, and you can readily see it paralleled between the two cultures if, for example, you look at something like the groundswell of action aimed against bullying in schools. Bullying has been a big topic there for probably the last 5-6 years or so in popular culture like dramas, manga, variety shows, news etc., and likewise here too more recently. And both for the same reason - namely kids driven to suicide due to relentless bullying. The form of bullying of course varies between the cultures, but the emotional tradgedy of the results is shared and felt fairly equally, thus the overall reaction to the issue is very similar in many ways too.

Sadly, the Japanese acceptance of suicide is really more of an unfortunate apathy or expectation than real, true acceptance. In other words, when people heard of Omori-san's suicide it was likely met more with a feeling of "well, he was a big wig and got caught, so yeah, that he killed himself is kind of expected and not surprising." while at the same time thinking like my wife that it was simply a way of skipping responsibility and nothing more. It's an odd dichotomy that does give the outward appearance of greater acceptance, but I think it's just that, an appearance.

 

[chikubi]

The people who make contaminated food are greedy no doubt, but the majority of Chinese buy counterfeit simply because they cannot afford the luxury that an average American does. You might argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life, but this is precisely the principle that America preaches and tries to spread to the rest of the world.

No, I wouldn't argue that not everyone needs a luxurious life. I also wouldn't try to pin the blame on any specific country either. Simple fact is that people anywhere and everywhere at any level will try to make their lives better and more comfortable on their own whenever possible. People also don't live in a vacuum, especially so in developed countries like China (despite their gov't's attempts at information control). The Chinese can just as easily look at Japan and South Korea as they can Europe, Canada, and the U.S. for inspiration regarding ways of leveling-up their lives. To say that they do what they do solely because America sold them a lifestyle ideology is ignorant at best.

Now, that's not arguing that America doesn't have its share of shady crap to deal with, but we're far from being unique in that regard. Still, America's problems in no way absolve China from acting responsibly and ethically according to standards that are widely accepted among developed countries, like patents and copyrights, and not poisoning your own people and others whenever possible.

Oh and remember, all the current Apple bruhaha about Chinese factories came about from a New York Times piece regarding the issue. New York is in America. We're not perfect, but we're not animals either.

 

[jarski]

Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

this goes little OT, but regarding the second option, I doubt Chinese necessary think patents does not matter. they have Marxist ideology behind them, which says any Capitalistic property does not matter. all the FSU-gear fans here should understand that 😀

 

[pinkarmy]

this goes little OT, but regarding the second option, I doubt Chinese necessary think patents does not matter. they have Marxist ideology behind them, which says any Capitalistic property does not matter. all the FSU-gear fans here should understand that 😀

and american never make bootleg rolling stones records...😀

 

[Paul T.]

It's because they're greedy and could care less.

Before you start writing off an entire nation from that high horse of yours, perhaps you could use your own language properly?

If they could care less then that means they care. Think it through.

Yes, there is corruption, complacency and avoidance of responsibility in Japan. And China. And your own country, whatever it may be.

 

[pinkarmy]

...Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

so the Nikon S2 is an original? and why the whole Fukushima nuclear episode? and how about all those food scandal?
playing mud wrestling won't help...

 

[rxmd]

so the Nikon S2 is an original? and why the whole Fukushima nuclear episode? and how about all those food scandal?

Is that supposed to be a counter-argument?
Some "but but but bad things happen elsewhere too" kind of thing?
"Tu quoque"?
"And you are lynching Negroes"?

 

[pinkarmy]

then is "...Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things?" supposed to be a counter-argument?

 

[Maiku]

As members post I see a degree of anger and misunderstanding. The reality is that we are blinded by our cultural basis. The world is getting smaller and smaller with internet, but it seems here many members expect everyone in the world to join hands into a unified culture, especially in the Judo-Christian outlook, yet that is never going to happen. Each country and cultural operates differently.

Looking beyond the outside and into the inside is the best way to understand what the reasons are behind behavior we do not understand. And living in another cultural is best way to get inside. The hard part being inside is letting go of our own basis and trying to be non-judgmental.

BTW GREED is everyone. Everyone does for one reason or another. Our perspective of greed is once again based on cultural basis.

 

[flip]

It's a sad thing when anyone's problems overwhelm them enough that they see death as the best option. It's not about honor or lack thereof. Were it, we'd all offer praises to someone's honor when they jump in front of a JR train and delay us 2 hours several times a year. It's about inability to see light at the end of the tunnel; a universal human failing no matter the country of origin.

 

[Maiku]

flip great comments.

 

[rxmd]

then is "...Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things?" supposed to be a counter-argument?

No.
But I think we can leave it at that, this threat is about the death of a person, after all.

 

[nighstar]

Before you start writing off an entire nation from that high horse of yours, perhaps you could use your own language properly?

before you start trying to chew somebody's head off, perhaps you should try quoting the right person.

Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter. What is behind it is the real question.

 

[Rayt]

Regarding knock offs, the Japanese did it in the 50's then the Koreans, and then Taiwanese, and now the Chinese. It will never stop because of demand. For the stuff to be made there must be demand. I think I still have my Nirvana bootleg from Italy somewhere.

I love all there is about Japanese culture and Japanese people. Suicide is a serious subject and should not be glorified at least not this day and age.

 

[chikubi]

Before you start writing off an entire nation from that high horse of yours, perhaps you could use your own language properly?

I could say something snarky here, but readers can fill in the blanks themselves. To wit:

"could(n't) care less

[one is] unable to care at all; it does not matter at all. John couldn't care less whether he goes to the party or not. I could care less if I live or die.
See also: care, could, less

McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc.

As for generalities, I simply was replying in kind using the original post's generalities for rhetorical emphasis. It's a pretty basic rhetorical technique, so not much more to address than that. In other words, "Before you start writing off an entire post because of that high horse of yours, perhaps you could use your time to study language and rhetorical techinique properly?"

See how that works? 🙂

 

[Paul T.]

The original rhetoric presented a choice, simplified to represent the range of views one can take. You responded with a cheap generalisation which completely misses the point of Maiku's argument.

Your defence of your sloppy language comes from a free online dictionary and your sloppy racial stereotyping is the kind of thinking we see lurking in the comments at the bottom of many news stories.


🙂

"They are greedy" - you're grouping Chinese, and Japanese, people together. And therefore implying your own nation's morals are superior. I'm saying they ain't. Use whatever language you like, but I, and hopefully others, don't visit this forum for cheap stereotyping and I'm not going to sit around and let it go unchallenged.

🙂

 

[mynikonf2]

I feel it is a dishonor to compare the act of a desperate criminal to the ritual suicide of the Samurai whose life was lived by the Bushido code: "Loyalty and Honor until Death!" This man did not live as a samurai, so how is his hanging himself compare to Japan's selfless young men of the "Divine wind", the Tokkō Tai of Japan's WW2 air corp? Let's not confuse the sorrow of getting caught with the sorrow that all of our young warriors feel when leaving their families (and to some their lives) behind to fight their countries battles. I can see no honor here, nor any in today's culture of greedy coporate/banksters who deliberately made it so easy for the whole world to become enslaved to them. Maybe our young warriors have been pointing their guns in the wrong direction...?

 

[mynikonf2]

The original rhetoric presented a choice, simplified to represent the range of views one can take. You responded with a cheap generalisation which completely misses the point of Maiku's argument.

Your defence of your sloppy language comes from a free online dictionary and your sloppy racial stereotyping is the kind of thinking we see lurking in the comments at the bottom of many news stories.


🙂

"They are greedy" - you're grouping Chinese, and Japanese, people together. And therefore implying your own nation's morals are superior. I'm saying they ain't. Use whatever language you like, but I, and hopefully others, don't visit this forum for cheap stereotyping and I'm not going to sit around and let it go unchallenged.

🙂

AMEN!! I could not agree with you more.

 

[dreilly]

By the way, I actually support the right to suicide in many cases that other westerners, especially the Christian ones, will not. I approach it from the Existential point of view, where continuing to live might be untenable in a variety of ways, the most clear-cut being a life of withering away from a painful disease (covered in a beautiful and poignant way by Frontline's "Suicide Tourist" documentary).

But even given my greater understanding for suicide as a legitimate choice, I have trouble seeing executives as honorable samurai. If they were such samurai their concern for right action would have influenced their involvement in the scandal in the first place.

I am glad to see that this attitude towards honorable suicide is not entirely accepted in Japan, either. Underlines that between relativism and universalism there is reality, which is complex.

 

[mynikonf2]

By the way, I actually support the right to suicide in many cases that other westerners, especially the Christian ones, will not. I approach it from the Existential point of view, where continuing to live might be untenable in a variety of ways, the most clear-cut being a life of withering away from a painful disease (covered in a beautiful and poignant way by Frontline's "Suicide Tourist" documentary).

But even given my greater understanding for suicide as a legitimate choice, I have trouble seeing executives as honorable samurai. If they were such samurai their concern for right action would have influenced their involvement in the scandal in the first place.

I am glad to see that this attitude towards honorable suicide is not entirely accepted in Japan, either. Underlines that between relativism and universalism there is reality, which is complex.

There is much wisdom in the words that you spoke here. So then you must understand that some would say that God himself was laying down his life through the death of Christ, and that he was doing this to do for us what we could not do for ourselves... and again there is a proverb from the book of Lao Tzu, the Tao Te Ching, "If you understand, things are exactly as they are, likewise, if you do not understand, things are exactly as they are." I guess it comes down to a matter of compassion, of giving of oneself for the benefit of others... this man gave us nothing by his death, he continued to be a taker to the very end.

But what does all this have to do with photography? Well here on RFF, I have witnessed many random acts of kindness, we seem to be able to agree on that. 😀