More tragedy at Olympus
- Thread starter N. Bruce Nelson
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N. Bruce Nelson
Canon L1 user
My friends, I feel strongly about this, in part because I got an M1 while living in Japan in 1972, and have had a great deal of pleasure from Olympus products over the years. I also had a chance to meet Maitani-san and discuss photography, cameras and lenses with him. I feel that I have a stake in the direction Olympus takes, and a connection with the people who make up the company, for good or bad.
Although I haven't met as many of you, and don't post often, I have received great pleasure from your pictures, comments and opinions. I hope we always remember to honor each other, both in our shared interests and in our differences.
For many of us, photography provides a place in our lives to be creative and relieve the stress that otherwise accumulates. Lets take care of each other.
Although I haven't met as many of you, and don't post often, I have received great pleasure from your pictures, comments and opinions. I hope we always remember to honor each other, both in our shared interests and in our differences.
For many of us, photography provides a place in our lives to be creative and relieve the stress that otherwise accumulates. Lets take care of each other.
pggunn
gregor
You are absolutely full of it.
There is dignity and shame wherever you look, though they are seldom in harmony, and often those who have too much of one have too little of the other.
No one culture, race, or creed has a monopoly on dignity, shame, or BS.
Hell, we're all living proof of that!
P
paulfitz76
Guest
Having worked as an American engineer in a Japanese company, alongside Japanese engineers, I can only feel saddened by these developments at Olympus. It's truly impossible for us Westerners to understand the level of shame that has been put upon portions of this organization, and what that means to the individual employees and their families. The fact that a Westerner called them out on it makes it even worse. It goes way beyond just saving face because the entire group has been shamed. This concept is not something I can ever understand, only hope to empathize with over a lot of sake.
Anyway, I ultimately believe that if they have the cash to survive, they will now produce some quite remarkable products. Looks like the new OM-D may be one. And that truly will be the only way forward to save face (at least in my limited understanding)
Anyway, I ultimately believe that if they have the cash to survive, they will now produce some quite remarkable products. Looks like the new OM-D may be one. And that truly will be the only way forward to save face (at least in my limited understanding)
P
paulfitz76
Guest
And also, the problem Mr. Woodford had was the way he dealt with the issue. He did not find any "exit strategy" way for the team who did this accounting nonsense to save face and recover their mistake. Of course that was what the whole thing was about in the first place, a way to save face and cover losses.
I think it would have truly required some serious negotiations with the board, prior to going public and being a whistle blower, to resolve the issues and make good to the shareholders. It's sad that after his entire tenure at Olympus that Mr. Woodford did not understand that the last thing that Japanese Kaizen needs is a whistleblower. It just does not work with their culture.
I think it would have truly required some serious negotiations with the board, prior to going public and being a whistle blower, to resolve the issues and make good to the shareholders. It's sad that after his entire tenure at Olympus that Mr. Woodford did not understand that the last thing that Japanese Kaizen needs is a whistleblower. It just does not work with their culture.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
My experience points to greed.
Jubb Jubb
Well-known
Yep. It's definitely not honourable to take your own life, especially if you have been involved in the olympus scandle. The more honourable way would have been to be honest, face the courts for what you have done, and serve jail time. By killing himself, he has robbed not only himself of dignity but also his family of a loved one.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Suicide is about unbearable human pain. You can all philosophise, overlay cultural bull ****e and pontificate all you want. It's still about reality, not beliefs.
pggunn
gregor
I couldn't agree more. Or perhaps I should just say that I agree wholeheartedly.
I have no doubt that the vast majority of Olympus employees and their families are honest and hard working. The real shame is that the sins of a few of the most powerful executives at the top have cast such a heavy shadow on those below them on the organizational chart.
I hope that all those who have committed crimes will be weeded out, while the honest ones will be be rewarded for their efforts and encouraged to continue to work for the benefit of their costumers, themselves, and the redemption of a company that they, and many of us, love.
I hope that my previous comments regarding dignity and shame were not misinterpreted. I had an email asking about it.
My comments were a response to a post implying that Americans have no dignity or shame, and although I agree that some of us don't, most of us do have both. The problem is, most of us, whatever our nationality, don't have a proper balance.
I love Olympus - and that includes the employees who have worked so hard to make it what I consider to be the best camera and optics company in the world today.
ampguy
Veteran
In light of these tragic events, I suggest RFF band together and hold a tribute.
Let's pick a date, and hold our Olympus cameras, and all at the same time, take a long exposure. Let's start with 1 second for each Olympus suicide, plus 1 second for every $US Billion corruptly moved around.
Who's in?
Let's pick a date, and hold our Olympus cameras, and all at the same time, take a long exposure. Let's start with 1 second for each Olympus suicide, plus 1 second for every $US Billion corruptly moved around.
Who's in?
Contarama
Well-known
You mean our Olympus video cameras??? Maybe we should blur the focus to make it more poignant!
pggunn
gregor
I wasn't born yesterday, but even if I was, and I lived to a ripe old age, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't live that long!
chikubi
Established
I'll apologize in advance, because this is a long one.
I find it troubling that someone can take one paragraph out of five written and use it to condemn someone they've never met as a racist by proceding to demonstrate an utter lack of comprehension, context, or language aptitude regarding its content. That doesn't wash with me so let's look at a few things.
Correct, and here is a direct paste from the original post: "Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter." Note the words I've emphasized in bold type.
Incorrect. Here is a direct paste of the first sentence of my reply: "It's because they're greedy and could care less." Again, note the words I've emphasized in bold type. I replied by choosing one of only two choices presented by the OP, and using his exact words verbatim. Any generality that was implied was already contained in the original content with nothing additional added by myself. As mentioned earlier, I did that for emphasis. Perhaps though, you feel it came from the remaining content of my reply. Lets review it then, as the remainder was simply a few supporting examples.
"You don't make things like counterfit toothpaste with poisons like Melamine in them and then sell them to your own people, for any other reason." This was a reference to a documentary I had seen regarding Chinese counterfitting. If it's too anecdotal for you, then here's a link from Google results to an FDA Enforcement Report filed shortly after a noted incident of such counterfit toothpaste in the US around 2007: http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm120465.htm It's under the heading 'RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: DRUGS - CLASS II' Only thing different is that this batch had DEG(antifreeze) in it this time.
"You don't put cheaper lead paint on children's toys when it's well know what the health consequences can be (and when you've got regulations controlling such actions in place), for any other reason." Any parent knows that this is a reference to the tainted China-made Thomas the Tank engine toys that were recalled a few years back due to lead paint found on them, along with others that were discovered in the debacle that followed. Here's a link if you're not familiar with it: http://www.usrecallnews.com/2007/06/thomas-the-train-toy-recall-for-lead-poisoning-hazard.html It could be argued that the toy company was American and supposedly aware of the issue, but it was never acknowledged as such and this was hardly the first time China-made toys were recalled for lead issues, so the example stands.
"When the whole world economy has determined the importance of copyright considerations, yet the Chinese still believe patent doesn't matter, it's because they're greedy and could care less." This final line was personal opinion, however, as noted again by the bold emphasized words, I never strayed further than the generalization originally posed by the OP's question.
The remainder from this point of my original reply specifically addressed Maiku's second point regarding suicide and honor in Japan, which was incorrect I felt and was also noted as such by a few additional posters after my reply.
So there it is. I'm sorry I picked Maiku's choice that you didn't want to hear, but anything that was implied was implied from the original content and the only additional content I added was two factually based examples and relavent.
Reading for convenience seems to be your forté. Yes, I did cut and paste from an online site for convenience's sake; nice of you to miss the associated reference, "McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc." In case you're not aware, McGraw-Hill is a highly regarded and longtime publisher of educational & professional publications. If you'd like a hard copy for yourself of the dictionary I used as a reference, Amazon will be happy to oblige: http://www.amazon.com/McGraw-Hills-...9346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329889336&sr=8-1
That said, my language wasn't sloppy, only your comprehension of it was.
This, and the rest of your reply, is where I get pi$$ed, and also the main reason for this being such a tome of a post as it's become. The simple fact is, I didn't spend nearly twenty years of my life, bust my a$$ to get a degree in Japanese sociology, learn the Japanese language from scratch to fluency, live and work in Japan, spend the past ten years happily married to a Japanese native, and raise my son (who is mixed obviously), to then be called a racist or racially ignorant by someone on the internet who can't even comprehend the language that's in front of his nose. You don't know me from Adam outside of one or two posts here. My everyday life is nothing BUT an exercise in racial integration, and I wouldn't have it any other way, so don't you dare to ever presume again that flippantly calling someone a racist is somehow the Path to Justice.
To any other members who read this to the end, I apologize if this comes across offensively, arrogant, or trivial; I'm just really angry, which is rare for me. Like Paul, "I'm not going to sit around and let it go unchallenged.", though this is the last I will address it.
I find it troubling that someone can take one paragraph out of five written and use it to condemn someone they've never met as a racist by proceding to demonstrate an utter lack of comprehension, context, or language aptitude regarding its content. That doesn't wash with me so let's look at a few things.
Correct, and here is a direct paste from the original post: "Why do the Chinese continually make boot-leg things? Is it because they are greedy and could care less or is that they genuinely believe a patent does not matter." Note the words I've emphasized in bold type.
Incorrect. Here is a direct paste of the first sentence of my reply: "It's because they're greedy and could care less." Again, note the words I've emphasized in bold type. I replied by choosing one of only two choices presented by the OP, and using his exact words verbatim. Any generality that was implied was already contained in the original content with nothing additional added by myself. As mentioned earlier, I did that for emphasis. Perhaps though, you feel it came from the remaining content of my reply. Lets review it then, as the remainder was simply a few supporting examples.
"You don't make things like counterfit toothpaste with poisons like Melamine in them and then sell them to your own people, for any other reason." This was a reference to a documentary I had seen regarding Chinese counterfitting. If it's too anecdotal for you, then here's a link from Google results to an FDA Enforcement Report filed shortly after a noted incident of such counterfit toothpaste in the US around 2007: http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm120465.htm It's under the heading 'RECALLS AND FIELD CORRECTIONS: DRUGS - CLASS II' Only thing different is that this batch had DEG(antifreeze) in it this time.
"You don't put cheaper lead paint on children's toys when it's well know what the health consequences can be (and when you've got regulations controlling such actions in place), for any other reason." Any parent knows that this is a reference to the tainted China-made Thomas the Tank engine toys that were recalled a few years back due to lead paint found on them, along with others that were discovered in the debacle that followed. Here's a link if you're not familiar with it: http://www.usrecallnews.com/2007/06/thomas-the-train-toy-recall-for-lead-poisoning-hazard.html It could be argued that the toy company was American and supposedly aware of the issue, but it was never acknowledged as such and this was hardly the first time China-made toys were recalled for lead issues, so the example stands.
"When the whole world economy has determined the importance of copyright considerations, yet the Chinese still believe patent doesn't matter, it's because they're greedy and could care less." This final line was personal opinion, however, as noted again by the bold emphasized words, I never strayed further than the generalization originally posed by the OP's question.
The remainder from this point of my original reply specifically addressed Maiku's second point regarding suicide and honor in Japan, which was incorrect I felt and was also noted as such by a few additional posters after my reply.
So there it is. I'm sorry I picked Maiku's choice that you didn't want to hear, but anything that was implied was implied from the original content and the only additional content I added was two factually based examples and relavent.
Reading for convenience seems to be your forté. Yes, I did cut and paste from an online site for convenience's sake; nice of you to miss the associated reference, "McGraw-Hill Dictionary of American Idioms and Phrasal Verbs. © 2002 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc." In case you're not aware, McGraw-Hill is a highly regarded and longtime publisher of educational & professional publications. If you'd like a hard copy for yourself of the dictionary I used as a reference, Amazon will be happy to oblige: http://www.amazon.com/McGraw-Hills-...9346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329889336&sr=8-1
That said, my language wasn't sloppy, only your comprehension of it was.
This, and the rest of your reply, is where I get pi$$ed, and also the main reason for this being such a tome of a post as it's become. The simple fact is, I didn't spend nearly twenty years of my life, bust my a$$ to get a degree in Japanese sociology, learn the Japanese language from scratch to fluency, live and work in Japan, spend the past ten years happily married to a Japanese native, and raise my son (who is mixed obviously), to then be called a racist or racially ignorant by someone on the internet who can't even comprehend the language that's in front of his nose. You don't know me from Adam outside of one or two posts here. My everyday life is nothing BUT an exercise in racial integration, and I wouldn't have it any other way, so don't you dare to ever presume again that flippantly calling someone a racist is somehow the Path to Justice.
To any other members who read this to the end, I apologize if this comes across offensively, arrogant, or trivial; I'm just really angry, which is rare for me. Like Paul, "I'm not going to sit around and let it go unchallenged.", though this is the last I will address it.
nighstar
eternal beginner
i don't blame you for being pissed, honestly....
George Bonanno
Well-known
Olympus...
They'll come out smelling like a rose after all is said and done.
They'll come out smelling like a rose after all is said and done.
Frontman
Well-known
Mr Woodford did give the board a chance to set things right. The news of the scandal had already broken out in the alternative press way back in June, and it was only a matter of time before all hell broke loose. In his letter to the board, he asked them to take responsibility for their actions and resign, so that the actions necessary to correct their wrongdoing could be performed quietly. Instead of following his advice, he was fired from his position after nearly 20 years of good work, forced to vacate his apartment before midnight of the same day, and forced to leave the country, via a bus to the airport.
The Chairman, Kikukawa-san, did the same thing when KPMG commented on "irregularities" in Olympus' books. Kikukawa-san personally went to the offices of KPMG and fired them face-to-face for daring to question how he did business.
Why should Woodford have given the board a chance to "save face" after they publicly fired and humiliated him? The board and chairman have no honesty or integrity, and therefore had no "face" to save. I only wish that this was America, where they would have made the police mugshots of Kikukawa-san and company public after their arrests.
Had this news not been made public, Kikukawa-san would have continued to mismanage the company, make poor investments, and pay millions of dollars of the company's money in fees to the crooks who operated his scheme outside the company. Let's not forget that Mr Kikukawa had been perpetuating this nonsense for years, the only result of which was that he only increased the amount of the losses rather than reduce them.
jsrockit
Moderator
Man, Americans sure get a good verbal beating daily on the internet... you would think the US would have imploded by now with al of the horrible, uneducated people we have... 😉
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