dfoo
Well-known
If you owned it, why is it derelict? You don't care about your property? And no, if I hurt myself while in the property I wouldn't sue you. Nor would I sue you if I fell down inside your house, for that matter.
bmattock
Veteran
In Michigan: 750.552 Trespass upon lands or premises of another. In Detroit specifically: Sec. 38-4-1. Trespassing in vacant buildings.
Apparently not OK. IANAL, but it looks pretty clear to me.
climbing_vine
Well-known
If you think that different crimes merit different punishments, then you are engaged in moral relativism.
People who claim to be against moral relativism are more interested in a soapbox than a productive discussion, because they are either lying or haven't thought about what the words mean.
climbing_vine
Well-known
Dressing like a slut doesn't destroy the livelihoods and homes of tens of thousands of people.
You're better than that type of strawman, Bill.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
The punishment should fit the level of the crime. This is common sense, not moral relativism.
If you can't tell the difference, then I want you on the jury when I commit some major crime....
climbing_vine
Well-known
OK. Now define "moral relativism", and explain your use of it as an antagonist to "right and wrong".
jack palmer
Well-known
Do you really think the courts of Detroit have time for this dumb s**t? They have their hands full with real crimes. You can quote all the laws you want and pass moral judgement on all of us sinners but I would be the guy with my camera in hand a smile on my face waving to you from the third floor of an abandoned building while you were fumbling for your cell phone to report this awful crime againt society.
Jeff Fillmore
Member
Bill- I can see some of your points insofar as to say that people into this type of thing should not complain if they are harassed- run off- arrested- injured- etc. (Not destroying things such as seen in the video should go without saying.) As with anything a little nefarious- one should understand and consider the possible consequences first- obviously. But gotta say- bro- you live in the wrong city to be soooo pissed off at people taking pictures of urban decay. I grew up around Detroit and I’m sure it’s even worse now- and well– yeah- you may be less angry living someplace else.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Absolutely. If we don't teach teenagers about contraception -- better still, if we pretend that sex doesn't exist outside marriage -- they won't have sex or get pregnant.
Cheers,
R.
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Nope. Fred points out another reasonable law that anyone with common sense can understand.
And a quite necessary law BTW.
ffenc1
Member
photographers dont turn houses into crack houses. this tread should be closed has nothing to do with photography. this guy has a personal issue because of something that happened on his street.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Wow!
Is this a record? 28 people all currently viewing this thread!!!
I think what I'm gaining from this is a sense that Bill is fairly right wing and a champion of "law and order". And if any of you are silly enough to visit any property he owned, I bet he's got a gun and would shoot you without a second thought.
But I also wonder about his position on all the military people whom he so admires and what he thinks of the atrocities many of them have been involved in in the different theatres they've been sent to - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? Are the participants also not criminals and should face the consequences of their crimes against humanity?
How about it, Bill? You can't have it both ways.
Is this a record? 28 people all currently viewing this thread!!!
I think what I'm gaining from this is a sense that Bill is fairly right wing and a champion of "law and order". And if any of you are silly enough to visit any property he owned, I bet he's got a gun and would shoot you without a second thought.
But I also wonder about his position on all the military people whom he so admires and what he thinks of the atrocities many of them have been involved in in the different theatres they've been sent to - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? Are the participants also not criminals and should face the consequences of their crimes against humanity?
How about it, Bill? You can't have it both ways.
bmattock
Veteran
Ask the guy who got a trespassing ticket at the train station in Detroit. Apparently, yes.
So if a city is overwhelmed with crime, it's OK to commit crimes that they are too busy to respond to. I see. Interesting perspective.
The city of Detroit is also notoriously unable to keep up with 911 calls. So by your logic, it's OK to knock over a liquor store, because the police clearly have more important things to worry about.
climbing_vine
Well-known
OK , if you agree that attractive nuisance laws are good and necessary, then you do agree that property rights are not an absolute.
So, you were up on a soapbox before, not saying what you *really* believe. It's ok. Happens to all of us.
Have any interest in talking about where you think the lines can reasonably be drawn?
dfoo
Well-known
There you go again. Comparing trespassing in a derelict with a hold up. Nice.
bmattock
Veteran
How do you know that? I've seen plenty of photographs taken by urbex types who feel free to tag the building they've broken into with spray paint and then take a photo of it - they're both vandals and photographers. And once the building has been busted into, what keeps the crack heads out? Or do the photographers wait patiently for the crack heads to break in first, so that they can stroll in later and claim not to have done anything wrong?
bmattock
Veteran
It was your logic that enabled me to do so. You said it was OK for you to trespass because the police were too busy to deal with you. If that's true, then anything the police are too busy to deal with must also be OK. Not my logic, bubba, yours.
micromontenegro
Well-known
Everything is relative, folks. Just because a building is derelict, it does not mean that "nobody cares". I know. I own part of a building that, despite my best efforts, has been derelict for over 10 years. I dearly hope to recover it someday, and would hardly appreciate someone doing more damage yet.
ffenc1
Member
dont you have anything better to do then troll? like go take pictures?
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
I'm sure if you Google both those terms you will find definitions explained in a more concise manner than I am able to compose without many minutes of painful editing and cutting and pasting...