gavinlg
Veteran
X100v is definitely fast enough with single point focus + recompose. Manual focus is average but the AF is very good.
Most compact, OVF, non-Leica camera + lenses?
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Archiver
Veteran
This absolutely pains me to say because I love Ricoh and their cameras, but I can only recommend the GR cameras with strong caveats. My GRD III and GR both suffered shutter mechanism failure, and there's fair anecdotal evidence on the forums that the GR shutter is prone to failure.
The cameras themselves are so good to operate, the colours are great, and yet the GR and GR II seem to crap out between 20k and 40k shutter actuations. Buying used makes a GR purchase even more hairy, as you have no idea how many shutter actuations it's had.
Even my first GXR body suddenly and unexpectedly bricked itself. All failures happened out of warranty, too.
For a very compact 28mm equivalent, find a Nikon Coolpix A, or a Fuji X70. On the desk right now is the Panasonic GM1 with Olympus 12mm f2, not exactly pocketable, but fast autofocus, very decent image quality, and lovely colours. The GM5 has a built in EVF, if you can find one.
It can happen (I've had it happen with a Leica M8 with low-ish actuations), but I know at least one person who had a lot more than this on their GR. I had 20,000-30,000 on at least one of mine too. I hate to say it, but ... they can be repaired and they aren't that expensive. I would not stress this... they are tools and they work well. Sometimes things go wrong.
olakiril
Well-known
I use adapted M mount lenses on my X-Pro and scale focusing with great results. As long as your subject is further than 3-5 meters and you use a wide angle lens parallax is not that bad (close to the error that native lenses have). But if you need to focus to anything that is closer or use wider apertures, then you will need to switch to EVF/LCD for decent precision.
Coupled with 14/2.8, 16/1.4 or 23/1.4 you will have parallax correction but I consider these on the larger size as Judge mentioned. Such a pity they haven't released their f/2 compact lenses with the focus clutch!
X100 series unfortunately for me have a useless manual focus implementation. Again, if they could implement the same focus clutch it will be a great camera. Center AF should work good enough though.
GR with the snap focus and the tiny OVF attachment is also a great solution but I never used it long enough to have any meeningful experience with the durability of the shutter.
The advantage of wide focal lengths such as with the GR series is that after extensive use I felt that framing came naturally and I didn't need to look at the LCD anymore. I could just point the camera and frame quite well. With 35 and above that is harder.
X-Pro2 I think gives you the flexibility to choose what works best for you. Whether that is MF or AF.
shawn
Veteran
And several different options for focusing too. Scale focus with a MF lens is one option, I really liked using the OVF plus the small EVF window in the corner zoomed into the focus point. With that set to monochrome and red focus peaking on I could MF non-native lenses while still using the OVF. When I saw red in the corner box I was focused. Didn't even have to look directly at it.
Shawn
olakiril
Well-known
Yep, on my X-Pro1 that is not available but in X-Pro2/3 it can be really useful!
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I googled it yesterday. Some are saying it works, some - aren't.
I never seen something like it about Canon Rebels.
The thing which is turning me off from GR was recent comment from Canadian who (and his buddy) got repair cost estimate after warranty for more than camera cost new.
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4337282
But I like the VF idea. Should work with E-PL1 I have.
I already have Olympus VF-1. Just have to get matching lens.
Here is the one for very reasonable price and local, three years local warranty.
Has Leica like focus, DOF scales. Could be taabed or just cable tied 🙂 .
https://www.laowalenses.ca/product/17mm-micro-ft/
Might be good for sunny day, no EVF beater kit. I guess. I used it with 15/8 pancake, but without VF. Can't say I like the framing, but results are with acceptable IQ (for sunny days).
Archiver
Veteran
Here's a flickr thread which discusses the shutter failure problem of the GR:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/ricohgr/discuss/72157655664854300/
My GRD III's lens block failed one day, and the lens block had to be replaced. The lens mechanism has now developed another fault (lens extends but takes no picture) and is unusable. My GR's shutter has crapped out, and my first GXR bricked itself. Out of the many cameras I've bought over the years, and honestly used like blazes, no other brand has given me such issues.
I have six Panasonic cameras and only two have issues, one fatal. Five Canons and two have very minor issues (front control dial on the 5D Mark II is a bit temperamental 5% of the time, Play rocker switch on the 19 year old S45 is temperamental). Three out of three Ricohs isn't a very good track record.
https://www.flickr.com/groups/ricohgr/discuss/72157655664854300/
My GRD III's lens block failed one day, and the lens block had to be replaced. The lens mechanism has now developed another fault (lens extends but takes no picture) and is unusable. My GR's shutter has crapped out, and my first GXR bricked itself. Out of the many cameras I've bought over the years, and honestly used like blazes, no other brand has given me such issues.
I have six Panasonic cameras and only two have issues, one fatal. Five Canons and two have very minor issues (front control dial on the 5D Mark II is a bit temperamental 5% of the time, Play rocker switch on the 19 year old S45 is temperamental). Three out of three Ricohs isn't a very good track record.
I’ve owned every single digital GR... all 7 of them. Never an issue. You guys do understand that the internet mostly focuses on what’s wrong with a camera right? You might not see anything about Canon Rebels because those users don’t hang out on forums. Who knows...
This is the perfect camera for Ko.Fe for what he wants and there are plenty of satisfied GR users all over the internet.
This is the perfect camera for Ko.Fe for what he wants and there are plenty of satisfied GR users all over the internet.
olakiril
Well-known
As a previous GR owner I agree. I wouldn't hesitate to buy it again. As great as the X-Pro line is, it is a much bigger package than the GR.
My two gripes with the camera were a couple of dust particles on the sensor and that using the snap focus on the first iteration of the APS-C line many times resulted in camera shake. Both of which I think should be fixed with the IBIS of GRIII. Additionally GRIII has much better AF so it would be my choice.
P.S. Found this site that talks about the problem: https://streetphototip.com/howtos/howto-avoid-fix-common-ricoh-gr-problems/
Searched for GRIII reports couldn't find one (you would have thought 2 years would be enough for reports to come in right?) , but if you are worried then using the GA-1 Lens Adapter with a filter as he suggests could be a way to prevent it.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
😕 Never heard of P.O.T.N. ?
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=781509
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=717910
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1204319
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=496404
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1485527
https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1276930
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4420117
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4381434
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4384208
https://www.reddit.com/r/ricohGR/comments/esnuk4/does_anyone_else_have_these_issues_with_their_gr/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ricohGR/comments/hghhlh/griii_overheating/
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums...roblem-not-regarding-wobbly-control-dial.html
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums...uality-griii-problem-wobbly-control-dial.html
https://thenextweb.com/plugged/2019/07/01/ricoh-griii-review-camera-photography/
Not my style of camera, especially with crappy local support. I'm not a gambler.
NorpA
Established
My only problem with the GRIII is that don't feel the scene. Shooting with it is more a serendipity experience. In any case the GRIII is without a native OVF so probably this comment is already OT.
Nope, never heard of it. Ok, well... no GR for you then. Enjoy whatever you choose, but the GR3 is what you are looking for. Have you looked at the Fuji XF10? It is almost GR like but it’s snap function is a bit more limited.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I totally like GR III, but it has issues and with only one year of warranty, I have to pay for something like AlState four years warranty via BH. Which is about 1200 USD in total. Do I want 1200 USD camera for four years and then local support priced more than new camera? I'm not too sure.
Maybe used GR II for under 400 USD and purchase locally.
Fuji XF10 is way to limited for MF focusing via OVF. Basically no focusing 🙂 .
I understand, I do. But it really is what you are looking for. Yes, locally for under $400 is a good compromise.
sevres_babylone
Veteran
I’m one of those who have had the shutter/lens mechanism fail. This happened on both the GR1 and GRII. Despite this, I bought the GRIII last March.
If you get one, you would want to get an OVF for bright days.
I had previously owned the GRD2 and GRD3 in the earlier small sensor series. I bought the APSC GR1 new. It’s death was slower, starting with intermittent failures, stuck shutter and blank frames. After it broke, a used X100T came up for sale here and I grabbed it. But I never bonded with it. One reason was that it’s kind of an in-between size. I’ve always carried my Ricoh’s in a belt-pouch. The Fuji is too big for that, and I always feel I may as well take the M9 with a 35mm on it, if I’m going to have to take a bag anyway. (Granted, there’s quite a weight difference). The other reason, and this goes to the original question in the post, is that I love the snap focus function on the Ricohs. It is a great function for zone focusing, especially given the 28mm is achieved with an 18mm lens on APSC cameras.
So, after my short Fuji experience, when a used GRII came up for sale, I bought it. It lasted about two years before having the same malfunction as the GR1. I don’t regret buying used. I don’t know why some of us have had the shutter mechanism problem and some of us haven’t. People talk about shutter counts; I wonder if the number of times turning the camera on and off is also relevant. Some have suggested moisture on the lens barrel can be a problem, That makes some sense, since retracting the wet lens barrel can’t be a good thing. I don’t recall that with the GRI as being a likely cause. On the other hand, I took the GRII with me as my main camera to Vietnam, where it rained most of the time I was there. While do try to be careful about wiping the barrel, I know I was short of perfect in that regard. Still it was about 10 months later that the malfunction happened. Admittedly the concert I photographed where I was trying to photograph the singer who had jumped into the dimly lit mosh pit might have accelerated its death, I inadvertently had it on autofocus rather than snap, so that the camera was doing lengthy fruitless focus hunting. But, as I suggested, who knows.
I bought the GR3 locally last March in anticipation of flying down to Texas for SXSW. Bad that I didn’t get to go; good that I didn’t go with my other option of ordering one from the U.S.A. And having it shipped to a family member in Austin, since he had to come back to Canada when I would have arrived, because of COVID restrictions.
The GR3 is my favourite. It actually has responsive auto-focus, which I rarely used on the previous ones because I found their autofocus to be so slow. I don’t miss the flash because I rarely use flash. I do miss the “rocker” button on the right that I used to use for over/under exposure. The buttons and dials are very programmable, and I have programmed the ISO button on the dial to easily switch back and forth between snap focus and auto focus. (I gather you can also program the camera so that a quick full press of the camera goes to snap focus, but a half press starts auto focus, but out of habit I haven’t done that.)
So, despite the failures, I still recommend the GR cameras. While there is risk buying used, the new ones don’t break until the warranty expires anyway😁 In terms of image quality, I don’t think there is much difference, if any, between the GRII and GRIII.
Good luck with your decision!
cboy
Well-known
OP...Smallest FF without a doubt is the sigma fp/fpL. The fpL rigged with either the new evf or first gen fp rigged with cage , ovf and pancake lens matching eg funleader18mm to name one of the smallest FF setups.
I never got some same rendition i got with FF when using aspc...
Versatile AF setup would be fpL + evf + aspc lens tl lens like the elmarit cropped to aspc.
Really depends on your style of shooting/ subject matter
I never got some same rendition i got with FF when using aspc...
Versatile AF setup would be fpL + evf + aspc lens tl lens like the elmarit cropped to aspc.
Really depends on your style of shooting/ subject matter
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Thank you... OP is the key word. As I mentioned in OP I'm just looking for a beater. FP after taxes is 2K USD. And some cage on top of it just because Sigma was stupid to not have hotshoe.
And then dirt cheap not only by its price 18 funleader?
Why do you think I would do so for a beater? 2K USD camera, in some odd cage and ****ty lens which is vignetting as Lomo and distortion.
And to get AF from this weird camera I have to add some weird EVF and non FF lens. Why do I need this if I already have Canon RP with build in EVF and normal, FF lenses? Why another FF camera, but with cropper lens and bulkiest EVF I ever seen. Weird...
Sigma rendering? I'm not this rich to spend thousands just for some rendering. While I'm totally fine with Canon rendering since 2009 🙂 .
I bet, Sony A7C with small 24 or 28 2.8 Samiyang lens is less expensive, faster on AF and smaller than this sigmaLeicastein.
helen.HH
To Light & Love ...
Well Kostya
I will have to agree with the ricoh crowd...
although it's small, can feel like a toy
it's kick ass files, edgy look, a new way to 'see' and capture the World .
Might be a creative fun way to shoot for You
Less serious, pocketable, a new body of work
just b e sure it feels right in the hand and eye, if so, then your off snd running 😉
never tried the Pen F, looks quite cool and beautiful rendering in both color and B&W...
I will have to agree with the ricoh crowd...
although it's small, can feel like a toy
it's kick ass files, edgy look, a new way to 'see' and capture the World .
Might be a creative fun way to shoot for You
Less serious, pocketable, a new body of work
just b e sure it feels right in the hand and eye, if so, then your off snd running 😉
never tried the Pen F, looks quite cool and beautiful rendering in both color and B&W...
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Thank you, Helen. I would take any O-MD over GRIII for rendering. Here is part of youtube video GRII vs GRIII and GRII/GR is clear winner over rendering to me. https://youtu.be/ZBmTlL_tro4?t=321
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