Moving to Leica M Film, a good idea?

pepeguitarra

pepeguitarra

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I used film cameras several years more than 40 years ago. About seven years ago, I got into the digital wave. After several brands, I settled on the best: Leica. I own an M8.u and an M9. However, I feel bad that I skipped the Leica film era and want to buy a Leica film camera. I have several questions before I buy something (I do not know much about film nowdays):
1) What camera do you recommend (keep in mind that my first camera wasa Pentax K1000 --all manual)
2) Will I be able to develop my own negatives? B&W and Color? Both, one, or none?
3) Will it be cheaper to send the film to the lab? What lab?
4) How do I transfer them into my computer? Do I have to scan them, or will the lab scan them for me?
5) How much should I expect to invest in the body, developing my own lab, sending to the lab, etc.
6) Am I crazy?
Thanks,
Pepe
 
1. too broad, what lenses do you shoot most? do you need a meter?
2. yes you can, you can definitely develop both. Color is slightly more trickier but still easy peasy.
3. labs charge 6-20 dollars for develop and scanning, but have great results, they also provide you digitals at a good size.
4. if a lab scans them, they provide digital copies, if you scan you have to buy a scanner and correct colors.
5. body and lens for a leica can get expensive fast. for the body refer to answer 1. for lens, you can go from 100-5000 dollars. I'd save and buy classic lenses to fool with then once you feel comfortable and know what range you want to shoot, buy a nicer one, if needed.
developing costs are not high, roughly 150-300 will get you set up ready to develop. No need for darkroom, just a dark bag, and some developing tanks, and chemicals.
6. no you are not. I have been shooting digitally for 10 years, then bought a medium format rz67 and loved it so much that i got bit by the leica bug because I wanted something more daily carryable.

On a side note: I recommend getting a cheaper rangefinder
canon p
canonet qliii
bessa R

(100-300)

then get cheap ltm lenses, most notably, 35mm canon ltm, 50mm 1.4 ltm or voigtlanders

then shoot a couple rolls and go slowly from there, no need to buy all the stuff up front. you may lose interest, you may feel like its not worth it.

However, once you do get to enjoy it and fall deeper into this rabbit hole, know you will spend a lot of money, its inevitable.
 
mikyor1 said:
1. too broad, what lenses do you shoot most? do you need a meter?
2. yes you can, you can definitely develop both. Color is slightly more trickier but still easy peasy.
3. labs charge 6-20 dollars for develop and scanning, but have great results, they also provide you digitals at a good size.
4. if a lab scans them, they provide digital copies, if you scan you have to buy a scanner and correct colors.
5. body and lens for a leica can get expensive fast. for the body refer to answer 1. for lens, you can go from 100-5000 dollars. I'd save and buy classic lenses to fool with then once you feel comfortable and know what range you want to shoot, buy a nicer one, if needed.
developing costs are not high, roughly 150-300 will get you set up ready to develop. No need for darkroom, just a dark bag, and some developing tanks, and chemicals.
6. no you are not. I have been shooting digitally for 10 years, then bought a medium format rz67 and loved it so much that i got bit by the leica bug because I wanted something more daily carryable.

On a side note: I recommend getting a cheaper rangefinder
canon p
canonet qliii
bessa R

(100-300)

then get cheap ltm lenses, most notably, 35mm canon ltm, 50mm 1.4 ltm or voigtlanders

then shoot a couple rolls and go slowly from there, no need to buy all the stuff up front. you may lose interest, you may feel like its not worth it.

However, once you do get to enjoy it and fall deeper into this rabbit hole, know you will spend a lot of money, its inevitable.
Click to expand...
All good suggestions.
 
1/ Do you want an M with a built in light meter? Do you want an M with auto exposure? Do you want an M with only manual exposure? What lenses are you going to use?

2/ Yes

3/ Depends on how much film you will shoot. If lots, cheaper to do it yourself. If one roll a month or less, cheaper to send out. I use northcoastphoto.com or thefindlab.com.
I do NOT recommend thedarkroom.com as I have had issues with them, and they are the most expensive.
4/ Scan them to disk - you with a film scanner (extra expense) or have a lab do it when they develop the film (what I do), upload to your computer.
5/ See #1
6/ Not remotely
 
You already own digital Leica M bodies. You already own Leica M mount lenses. A film M body makes the most sence. A Leica M6 (TTL) or an M7 would provide a seamless user experience between digital and film M bodies. I believe the shutter speed dials all turn in the same direction. You could even add a flash that works with both seamlessly.
 
oh shoot, i totally forgot he was already shooting an M9

if you dont need a meter and shoot 35mm focal length
M2, M4-2. M4-P, M4
if you dont need a meter and shoot 50mm focal length and longer more
M3

If you need meter and want classic body
M6 or M6 TTL

If you want meter and Automation
M7

If you want a classic hand fitted wetzlar made leica with a spot meter, ergonomics, non-led meter readout, shutter selection in viewfinder, and you got big hands
M5

you really cant go wrong.

prepare to spend (if your good at hunting for good deals) <$900
if your'e not a good deal hunter >$1100
if the seller is lying or you dont know what to ask a dealer prepare to spend 180-500 for repairs/cla

gdluck.
 
1) Going back in time, a nice M2 would be my recommendation. The look, the controls, just retro enough without making you think every time you touch her.

2) Depends upon where you live and how deep your pocket book is. B&W can be done anywhere. I never had good luck with color anything at home or school, so I switched to slide film and had labs print what I wanted printed.
I'd look around for a shared darkroom space, while the price of the hardware is next to nothing the time to set up a good darkroom can be a bit much. If you find you love watching your prints develop you can make your own, or build another facility to share among analog photographers.

3) Price per frame depends upon how many frames you are going to shoot. Where are you located and that may help others recommend labs close to you.

4) More expensive labs have better scanners. You might look into a lab for good developing and basic scanning. If you find something you want higher quality from then find a lab that will scan you negatives at a higher resolution and just do the keepers.

5) Look to Craigslist. Here in the Des Moines Iowa area there is a complete darkroom with a newer Leica enlarger going for $300 USD. I'd start medium in space aside, small in cost and see how it goes.

6) The answer I get whenever I ask myself that question is "No, why did you ask".
I'm going down that road again too, I hope, but with LF. While I had great results with 135 for many year there is something about the feeling I get looking at a 4x5 negative, rich, in a good way very rich.

Hope this helps.

B2 (;->
 
pepeguitarra said:
I used film cameras several years more than 40 years ago. About seven years ago, I got into the digital wave. After several brands, I settled on the best: Leica. I own an M8.u and an M9. However, I feel bad that I skipped the Leica film era and want to buy a Leica film camera. I have several questions before I buy something (I do not know much about film nowadays):
Click to expand...

1) What camera do you recommend (keep in mind that my first camera wasa Pentax K1000 --all manual)
Click to expand...

Depends on what focal length you shoot.

If you shoot a 35mm any M model will be just fine. In that case the M6/M6ttl is hard to beat. They are relatively cheap and indestructible.

If you shoot a 50 I recommend the M3/M2/M4/early M4-P with the 1 meter frame lines. They frame more accurately than the M6/M7/MP markings which are set for .7 m. My recommendation is the M4.

Look for a model with the .72 viewfinder. It's the most versatile.
The M3 only comes in .92 and has no frame lines for anything wider than a 50mm (no 35/28)

Get the camera overhauled by a reputable shop. DAG, Sherry, Yokin (spelling?) etc.

2) Will I be able to develop my own negatives? B&W and Color? Both, one, or none?
Click to expand...

BW is very easy to develop. I recommend Barry Thornton's 2 bath developer. You can get the ingredients at Freestyle Photographer. Otherwise just plain old Kodak D76

Color is more complicated. You need to develop it at a certain temperature etc.

3) Will it be cheaper to send the film to the lab? What lab?
Click to expand...

BW is much cheaper to develop at home.
I send color out to the labs.


4) How do I transfer them into my computer? Do I have to scan them, or will the lab scan them for me?
Click to expand...

Have a look at the Plustek scanners. Good quality and a lot cheaper in the long run than getting scans form the lab.


5) How much should I expect to invest in the body, developing my own lab, sending to the lab, etc.
Click to expand...

Take a look at KEH.com for used M bodies.


6) Am I crazy?
Click to expand...

Depends on whom you are talking to.


Thanks,
Pepe
Click to expand...
 
Iestrada said:
You already own digital Leica M bodies. You already own Leica M mount lenses. A film M body makes the most sence. A Leica M6 (TTL) or an M7 would provide a seamless user experience between digital and film M bodies. I believe the shutter speed dials all turn in the same direction. You could even add a flash that works with both seamlessly.
Click to expand...

1. My advice too, the M6TTL has the same shutter dial as your digital M's. Go for the M7 to get AE as well.

2. Yes, B&W is easy (I've never done colour). Heaps of info out there, and set up costs are under $150. See here for example https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13298

3. Maybe, but not in Australia! It depends on what you shoot and where you live. I do get colour film developed locally, but scan it myself.

4. Lab scan or scan yourself - both have advantages. I scan myself using a Plustek 8100 scanner (~$300) and Vuescan software (~$70). Personally, I found lab scans to be okay for small size emails, but not for more involved editing and printing. Again, so much info out there, I see another thread on the front page just now.

5. Body cost between $1500 and $2000 I suppose for an M6TTL or M7 in good nick. Keep in mind that they are unlikely to depreciate much (if at all) in the next 10 years. So if you find you don't like it the cost will be small. As for ongoing costs, it varies with how much you shoot, it costs anywhere from $5 to $30 per roll depending on your choices.

6. Yes of course. You can commit yourself when you sell your digital bodies 😀

7. Enjoy!
 
Thank you!

Thank you!

Man, I am overwhelmed with so many answers. When I started thinking film, I was thinking in the M3 (the best Leica ever built, according to that guy!). It is all mechanical and it does not have a meter. My first camera did not have a meter, so, I estimated the speed by trial and error, until I became kind of good a that. However, it was more than 40 years ago. The price of the M3 is OK. They was I see it now I am leaning towards the M6 (no TTL, or is there an advantage to using flash - I usually do not use it, I have fast lenses). I think, I will first send the rolls to a lab until I am sure I am shooting it and enjoying it. Then, I may move to develop the film myself. Also, I would go B&W only. That is for now. I am going to keep an eye for a M6 (o.58 ? is that the best for using my favorite lens is the Summicron 35/2, or Canon 35/1.8, or Nikkor 35/1.8. Suggestions? THANKS.
 
pepeguitarra said:
Man, I am overwhelmed with so many answers. When I started thinking film, I was thinking in the M3 (the best Leica ever built, according to that guy!). It is all mechanical and it does not have a meter. My first camera did not have a meter, so, I estimated the speed by trial and error, until I became kind of good a that. However, it was more than 40 years ago. The price of the M3 is OK. They was I see it now I am leaning towards the M6 (no TTL, or is there an advantage to using flash - I usually do not use it, I have fast lenses). I think, I will first send the rolls to a lab until I am sure I am shooting it and enjoying it. Then, I may move to develop the film myself. Also, I would go B&W only. That is for now. I am going to keep an eye for a M6 (o.52 ? is that the best for using my favorite lens is the Summicron 35/2, or Canon 35/1.8, or Nikkor 35/1.8. Suggestions? THANKS.
Click to expand...

All M's up the M7 are fully mechanical. The M6 (and TTL) use a better only for the meter. You can take the battery out of the M6 (and TTL) and it has no effect. I use my M6 without a battery. Keep in mind that up until the M6 the shutter speed dial is smaller and turns the other way to your digital M's. The M6TTL and M7 turn the same as your other cameras.

If you use a 35mm lens, don't mind the smaller "backwards" shutter dial and don't use a 28mm, I'd recommend an M2 or M4. Nice and classic.
If you use a 28mm lens then an M4-P or M6.

If you want the same shutter dial as your digitals, M6TTL (forget about the flash, the shutter speed dial will feel more familiar to you).

If you want AE, M7.

0.72 (standard) VF mag is perfect for the 35mm. You'll pay a premium other magnifications.

I like you're film plan. Nice and easy.

Don't forget you can always change your mind and you won't loose much (if any) cash selling the body.
 
To be completely frank, there is nothing that can compare to shooting B&W film in an all mechanical camera. For colour, in my opinion, digital is simply too convenient to bother with film.Digital will never reproduce the B&W traditional cubic crystal silver film rendering. This in my opinion should entail developing yourself and scanning yourself. It is kind of like learning the Japanese ceremony of the tea. It's not only about taking pictures, but foremost about being more thoughtful, slowing down and enjoying the whole process. Get some jazz records and a glass of wine ready when you develop and scan, and you will understand what I mean...
As to the camera - it depends if you need to shoot fast or not. In the first case I'd recommend an M7, in the second an M3 or M4, depending if your most used lens is a 50mm or a 35mm. If you feel too rich, you can always get an MP.
An important thing: factor in some cash for the scanner.
If I had to start from scratch now, I'd get an M3 SS, Rigid or DR Summicron 50, 4 Hewes reels and a 4 reel steel tank and the rest of accessories.
Estimated cost:
camera 900 USD
light meter 150 USD
lens 700 USD
reels, tank, developing accessories - 300 USD
scanner: from 200 to 1000 USD depending on how big you want to print
printer ( epson SC P600) around 600 USD

You can start just with the camera and a cheaper lens and see how you like it before moving on.

M4, Summicron DR 50

20136002 by marek fogiel, on Flickr
 
Pepe, You're on the right track. You'll probably NOT want an M3 if you like your 35mm lens. The M3 only has framelines for 50 and up. You are probably good with an M6 (classic or TTL) or M4 (M4-2,M4-P), or an M2. People suggested the M6TTL mostly because the shutter dial is the same as on the digital M's (e.g., your M8 and M9). The M7 also has the bigger dial, and it has Aperture Priority mode which is most like the digital M's So you have plenty of choices depending on whether you want a meter, and then if you want a big shutter dial, and then if you want AE. Oh, and yes you probably want the 0.72 viewfinder. Its actually a little more magnified than the digital M's you've been using. I believe both the M8 and M9 have 0.68 viewfinders. I like the 0.72x viewfinder on my M2 and it's easy to move between it and the M9.

Yes, I'd recommend B+W only for a while. Easiest. I also suggest sending to a lab for the first while too because you're easing into this. But, I'm pretty sure that once you're "into" film, you'll want to develop yourself. Color is more tricky to develop. Many of us stick with B+W and send color out to a lab, if we do color at all.

You've been around RFF for a while. I'm surprised you haven't tried film M's by now. Its different than the digital experience. I have an M2 that I shoot about 1/3 of the time and digital the other 2/3 of the time. My M3 and M6 are non-operational at the moment, but I did like the M6 because sometimes I like to see what the meter suggests for exposure. In low light situations, my estimated exposure is often wrong.

Let us know how you like or dislike film when you get going with it. My guess is you'll like it, but digital will remain the greater part of your shooting.
 
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