Mr Gandy Goes to Photokina

Doug

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From the RFList today....

Subject: Photokina Notes
Date: Saturday, 16 October, 2004 16:40
From: Stephen Gandy <leicanikon@earthlink.net>

I went to Photokina to see Tom and Tuulikki Abrahamsson, and Voigtlander's CEO Mr. Kobayashi. After that, everything else was just gravy. Tom and Tuulikki took the time to show this Photokina newbie around, and help keep me from taking the wrong train ride to Finland. It was amazing to me how the Germans keep their trains moving within a few minutes of schedule all day long, while in Los Angeles we are lucky to see a bus arrive within plus or minus 20 minutes. Bob Shell was helped me arrange a Press Pass so I was able to file one story while still at Photokina.

Cosina does not have a display booth open to the public. Instead, Cosina's CEO Mr. Kobayashi meets people by appointment behind the closed doors of the blue Cosina wall. The new generation of Voigtlander R2A / R3A / Epson RD-1 / Zeiss Ikon have improved RF/VF optics compared to the older R/R2. The finders seem a bit brighter to me, with a noticeably larger RF patch which makes for easier focusing. I could easily see the red LED shutter display at the bottom of the finder. Each standard shutter speed from 1 to 2000 is indicated. Rounded off, the nearest shutter chosen shutter speed is lit up on AE. In metered manual, the indicated shutter speed is brightest, while the other speeds are not as bright. The new electronic shutter going to 8 seconds on AE, or 1 to 1/2000 manually, is quieter than the previous Bessa mechanical shutters. I estimate about 1/3 quieter, but I did not have both for a side by side comparison. Only black bodies offered at this time. I really like the 1:1 finder in the R3A. so far the R3A is the first life size M mount film camera ever, but then M's have only been in production for half a century now.... Why is that important? Because you can shoot with both eyes open without eye strain. The mechanical Bessa shutter is not discontinued, so perhaps Voigtlander will fill out the product line later on. Many ideas for new cameras and lenses were discussed. The question is which idea will end up at the end of a Voigtlander production line.

The new Voigtlander VC Meter II for classic meterless cameras seems smaller than it is, but measure about half the size of the old version. black or chrome.

So far as I know, the new Cosina Voigtlander M mount 40/1.4 is the first 40/1.4 made for full frame 35mm photography. There are two versions. The standard version is multi-coated. There is also a limited edition of 500 single coated SC 40/1.4 lenses. Why? Some Japanese shooters prefer single coated lenses for B/W due to better shadow detail. The vented Leica style bayonet hood is optional. Filter size 43mm. The new 40/1.4 brings up the proper 40 brightline on Leica CL's or Minolta CLEs. It can be modified to bring up the 35 frameline on Leica M's.

An unexpected highlight of our meeting with Mr. Kobayashi was a knock on the door from Pop Photo's Herbert Keppler. I have exchanged letters with him and a few phone calls for years. It was a great meeting Mr. Keppler in person. He is a delightful and perceptive man, the dean of American photographic writers so far as I am concerned.

The biggest RF surprise of Photokina was the Zeiss entry into the Leica M mount market, with its Cosina made "Zeiss Ikon" rangefinder. It's odd to see "Zeiss Ikon" used as a model name instead of a manuf name, oh well. Aimed at a target approximately 60% of the Leica equivalent, this lineup looks inexpensive compared to Leica, but will cost about 3x Cosina Voigtlander products. Probably due to a translation problem, I found the English Zeiss Ikon brochure funny by claiming they were aiming for the ultimate M lenses! only mockups of the bodies were on display at Zeiss or Hassleblad, the distributor of the new Zeiss Ikon camera. The new Zeiss Ikon "ZM" lenses are made by Cosina except the humongus 15/2.8 and average size 85/2. In contrast to the body, working ZM lenses were shown: 15/2.8, 21/2.8, 25/2.8, 28/2.8, 35/2, 50/2, 85/2. All magnificently finished in either black or chrome with bayonet-on style lens hoods. Behind the scenes was a beautiful black paint Zeiss Ikon body. I was told 25, 28, 35, and 50 should be available late Oct or early Nov. The 15, 21, 85 in Feb. The body in April. The Zeiss Ikon is the first Cosina M mount body to 1) use Leica's automatic brightline system 2) have a long 75mm RF base length. The brochure alludes to a future digital Zeiss Ikon M mount, but without any specifics. Say good-bye to the G series.

Epson's RD-1 uses the same shutter and similar finder to the other new Cosina made rangefinders. Using only 3 framelines, 28/35/50, the 28 will be unfortunately close to useless with eyeglass users. Epson makes a big deal of the RD-1 having being the first 1:1 finder. True enough, but Epson's inexperience in RF design shows in choosing the 1:1 finder in a camera with 28/35/50 framelines that makes the 1/3 of the framelines useless for eyeglass wearers. The .7 finder would have been a much wiser choice for this camera. I don't like the complicated and expensive Seiko inspired control center sitting where the shutter speed dial usually is. It seems the designer has a little too much watch experience. I found the half stroke advance a bit bothersome, especially since a simple change of gearing would give a more traditional 35 RF type advance. It will shoot either JPG or RAW format, but starts choking on the 3rd RAW shot in quick succession. I was not able to use the camera other than a few shots at the exhibition booth, but more than one user has commented on the low JPG noise -- which the Epson design team was striving for. I do like the flip top LCD panel, nicely done. The "rewind knob" is a really nifty way to make your way thru the menu system.

I suspect Epson priced the RD-1 at $3000 to make it look like a bargain compared to the estimated $7,000 for a digital Leica M, not understanding how much price resistance they would get for the RD-1 in that rarefied price category. At the moment the RD-1 is the world's best digital M mount camera, but Zeiss Ikon and Leica have both announced digital M cameras. What happens when there are 3, or who knows, more? The basic problem of any digital camera is that has a computer style shelf life, with most digital cams having a very low computer like resale value only two years after their initial sale. To justify $3000, most buyers will either simply have bucks, or be able to make the investment back before it becomes obsolete.

It's odd after so many years of stagnation to see so much happening in the RF world. Sure, it's a small niche market, but some people like it.

I like the new Nikon F6. I personally love the return to a detachable high speed motor, and even more, the ability to use up to 10 AIS manual focus lenses with Nikon's latest matrix metering system. The flash system has also been improved. For the first time, gone from the new F6 are the seldom bought bulk film back and interchangeable finders.

At the Leica booth I visited with Leica's personable and now departed CEO Cohn. I like Mr. Cohn, and I am sorry to see him leave Leica. Cohn's tenure produced the first two new Leica M cameras since the M6 of 1984, the MP and the M7, no small accomplishment.

While Canon and Nikon users get excited about 14MP 35mm style cameras, Mamiya did one better by introducing a 22MP SLR styled similar to the old 2 2/4 Norita, using Mamiya 645 lenses. that will give a few Canon and Nikon photogs a touch choice. Wouldn't be interesting if Mamiya put that 22MP back on the Mamiya 7?

Stephen Gandy
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Doug, thanks for posting this informative article. You provided a nice service for RFF readers.

I find it interesting that he reports that the Bessa mecchanical shutter is not discontinued. Bob Shell of Shutterbug has reported elsewhere that it was discontinued. In fact, he stated explicitly that the change to an electronic shutter was not Cosina's choice, that it was "forced upon them." I hope that Stephen is right because right now the only fully mechanical 35mm cameras in production are the Leica MP & the Nikon FM3A (in manual mode).

Maybe it's just me but I don't understand what Stephen found funny abou Zeiss claiming they are aiming for the ultimate M lenses. Is it the irony of Leica's biggest competitor historically now trying to beat them at their own game? I would love to see every manufacturer set that same high production goals. I guess I can be obtuse.

Did anyone else find Cosina's marketing approach just a little odd? To come to the industry's largest international products show only to hide your new products away behind closed doors, available for viewing by appointment only? I guess that's how they keep prices down. Their approach is about as no frills, direct from the factory as you can get when buying.

Stephen Gandy does a wonderful job of making CV products available at rock bottom prices. Thank you, Stephen. However, this is not the case globally. On the other side of the Atlantic at Robert White in UK, the Bessa R2, for example, sells for $653 + $114 VAT = $767. There is no way to avoid the VAT when purchasing in UK or in EU. In Germany, VAT is normally built in to the price. In this example, the projected ZI price is about twice the CV R2 price not 3x as in Stephen's example. Since VAT is built in to production costs in Germany, it unfortunately travels with their products overseas. This is true for Leica & will be true for ZI. (Note that I am using the R2 price because Robert White has not yet announced its prices for the R3A & R2A, but so far it appears that they will be priced the same as the R2.) While his customers get a great bargain from him, using Stephen's prices as a basis for comparison with ZI - as he does in his comment - would be like using ACC prices as the standard for Leica; it doesn't tell the whole story.
 
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While I am a Stephen Gandy customer, I also buy CV equipment from Rich Pinto at photovillage.com. Rich is an excellent dealer with a full array of Nikon, Canon, Mamiya and Leica gear as well as CV. [No connection - just a customer.]
 
Hi Huck-- Bob Shell participates on the RFList and CVUG lists where Stephen Gandy posted his report. I think Gandy specifically asked Mr K about the shutter issue as a result of Shell's earlier comment about the shutters being discontinued. When I asked what impact this might have on the Bessaflex, Shell replied that it was a different shutter. That's probably so, as I understand the RF cameras have a double shutter blind to prevent light leaks such as plague the Yasuhara camera. (BTW, if the Bessaflex continues in production, it should count in your list of mechanical cameras.)

Shell's assertion that Mr K was forced into offering AE due to the mechanical shutter being discontinued does make sense in light of Gandy's mentioning over a year ago that Mr K had no intention of including AE in the new camera then rumored (and subsequently put on hold to work on the Epson).

It could be that Epson and Zeiss both wanted AE, requiring an electronic shutter, so Cosina switched all the RF bodies to that shutter as a matter of production efficiency.

As another matter of sheer speculation, last year's rumored new Voigtlander delayed by Epson development may have been a long-baseline RF design now seeing light under the Zeiss Ikon name!

I'll guess that Cosina's low-key Photokina presense is indicative of the company's long-standing role as an OEM supplier of gear sold under other companies' nameplates. They've had booths at other shows, I think under the Voigtlander name, but they may not have the right to use that name in Germany.

Gandy's comment about the Contax G series seems to confirm an earlier claim that the Kyocera/Zeiss lens plant has ceased production. And I suppose that means the end of other Contax-branded cameras made by Kyocera/Yashica unless there's another source of Zeiss lenses for them. There's a story in there somewhere!
 
Hi, Doug -

How can Gandy say that the product line will be filled out later if the RF requires the shutter that Copal has discontinued. Are you saying that he would somehow use the mechanical shutter from the Bessaflex? (My apologies for overlooking the Bessaflex.)

Interesting speculation on the decision to switch to the electronic shutter. Makes sense.

The history of the ZI development is an interesting topic in its own right. There is a Japanes (or Chinese?) photo news site that printed a story, in which they mentioned that the ZI emerged from conversations that began at Photokina 2 years ago between CZ & Cosina. I personally doubt that the ZI is a Cosina project that has emerged under the ZI name, but who knows? I just don't see any evidence that Cosina would invest the kind of R&D required for this project. More likely IMHO is that there was mutual interest creating the financial feasibility for the project, that CZ has been a very active participant all along & not a partner in name only, that CZ had the deep pockets to do the R&D, that Cosina had the resources to do the manufacturing & the location for lower cost production, & that Cosina had input into manufacturing decision-making & parts selection as such a partner could. I don't remember if this site has been posted here before, but I'll try to dig it out & post it.

Thanks for the insights on Cosina's presence at Photokina.

I'm not sure if the Kyocera Contax has ended. I suppose it would depend on the continued market feasibility of the camera, whether Kyocera has interest, & the current state of the corporate relationship between Kyocera & Carl Zeiss. I could see a scenario in which CZ licenses the lenses to Kyocera for Kyocera to manufacture under the Yashica name or even under the Kyocera name itself - just as Rollei & Hasselblad d😵r it could continue in the way that Minolta did with the CLE after the dissolution of its partnership with Leica to produce the CL back in the '70s. As you say, another interesting story here.
 
Gandy's comment, "The mechanical Bessa shutter is not discontinued, so perhaps Voigtlander will fill out the product line later on" is a puzzle isn't it. I just can't imagine what benefit there might be in offering a mechanical-shutter body, now that the L, T, R, and R2 have all been discontinued, and all new bodies are using the electronic shutter.

The only thing I can think of is the marketing benefit of the camera working without a battery. But then the user loses his light meter... I don't know if that's enough reason to resurrect what would be essentially be one of the discontinued models. Maybe Gandy was speculating on an unknown future while making the point about the shutter actually not being discontinued.

I'm relatively happy to have acquired the two weirdest Bessa models, the L and T, while still available. 🙂

I'm sure you're right, Huck, about the two-way cooperation in design and development between Zeiss and Cosina, probably rather similar to the cooperation between Epson and Cosina. But, might the work with Zeiss have begun earlier, inspired the new-RF prediction by Mr K, then be delayed by Epson in a big hurry to get their ideas in production? I don't know, of course, just trying to fit the pieces of the puzzle.

But in that earlier comment Mr K did seem solid that the new RF (implied a Voigtlander) wouldn't be an AE camera, so either I'm fitting it together wrong or Zeiss decided they wanted AE after all.

Resurrecting the Yashica name is an interesting idea. And I believe the Yashica production facilities are able to make lenses as well as whole cameras. The Tomioka plant was acquired to expand lens production capability, so if it's now closed, they still have the rest of the Yashica facilities and experienced Contax-making personnel.

I don't know that they could continue to use Zeiss's Contax name, especially in the absense of Zeiss-branded lenses. Maybe new versions of the Contax cameras under the Yashica name... Or maybe dump the film cameras and go all-digital? The loss of the elite Contax name would have to hurt... worse than trying to switch Lexus customers to the same cars under the Toyota name.
 
Did anyone else find Cosina's marketing approach just a little odd? To come to the industry's largest international products show only to hide your new products away behind closed doors, available for viewing by appointment only?

It makes perfect sense when you reflect that Cosina is primarily a contract manufacturer for other camera companies. Those customers might not like it if Cosina made too big a splash at shows and stole their thunder.
 
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