My 35mm rangefinder misadventure

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Michael Da Re said:
<snip> I do think digital photography has it's place , but only for <snip> shooting weddings where fast turnover is a must.
For the life of me I still can't figure out how newlyweds could stand to wait for photos in the pre-digital era. Oh my, what prehistoric conditions! That Kodachrome print of my mom and dad on their wedding day must have caused them such agony for what, weeks? 🙄
 
Digital is perfect for newspapers, among some other applications.

But I'm with Alex (Ossifan), this is my hobby. I like what I do (with RF cameras and film) and I do what I like. So at least for me, the Leica M3 IS a much better camera than a dSLR!

(Did anyone else have the image of a child stamping his feet in a tantrum?)
 
Not to spoil the fun of the film vs. digital debate but Ken Rockwell's film scan was from a 4x5 transparency. I’m pretty sure that if you compare a 35mm transparency scan of the same image area it would be more on-par to the digital capture – no matter how good the lens.

I’m not a format fascist: film rangefinders for the enjoyment, DSLR for assignments and ‘Big Red’ – the 8x10 cherrywood camera - comes out for the stuff I can put a lot of time into! As many before have said, right tool for the right job.
 
I've found very few people here that are format facists. I'd bet that 75% or more own digital as well as film (quick, someone start a poll!).
The OP's post is offensive because it draws near absolute conclusions (a very silly thing to do in such a subjective area) and then says we should not blow smoke up his....as though to disagree with him is to lie and misslead.
Our mostly harmonious little community here remains so because most all members have open minds and live and let live mentalities (or at least they restrain their baser impulses when visiting).
The OP is no more than a drive by shooter in a normally peaceful, inclusive community.
 
dazedgonebye said:
I've found very few people here that are format facists. I'd bet that 75% or more own digital as well as film (quick, someone start a poll!).
The OP's post is offensive because it draws near absolute conclusions (a very silly thing to do in such a subjective area) and then says we should not blow smoke up his....as though to disagree with him is to lie and misslead.
Our mostly harmonious little community here remains so because most all members have open minds and live and let live mentalities (or at least they restrain their baser impulses when visiting).
The OP is no more than a drive by shooter in a normally peaceful, inclusive community.

Agree. Like I said before, if this is not a troll, then I don't know what is.
 
Good Grief! A true Zen moment!
Range Finder Forum has attained the "Universal Thread"!
Proof: do a search and replace-
for "Digital SLR" for "range finder"
spin casting and fly rod
electric range, gas stove
ATV , hiking shoes
airline , Amtrack
M-16 , M-1
Scooby Doo , Bugs Bunny
Mac , Windows
Rap , Scat
Diesel , Steam
Red Head , Blond
Cross Bow , Long Bow
Lager , Ale
Photograph , Ink & Paint

The only thing more common on the internet (or in print) than silly season debates ("Retired Colonel" vs. "Maiden Lady") is (you guessed it) porn.

Besides, all a real photographer need is that little chain hanging from his Minox...:angel:
 
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I was going to resist but hey, I have a day off work and I re-read Bill's OP.

Many, if not most, dSLR shooters, have never shot 4x5; I'm sure quite a few think that LF film doesn't even exist any more. I'm sure Bill would not be comfortable with LF, especially a view camera, because it's not the way he likes to work. That, really, is the point. His "problem", if you will, is that he made all kinds of categorical statements:

"First of all, any SLR, film or digital, is inherently superior to a rangefinder camera. The ability to look through the lens is a huge advantage. Also, the rangefinder focusing mechanism is a Rube Goldberg setup that depends on precision machining to work properly. Let's face it; back when ordinary people could not afford a SLR, the rangefinder camera was king. But that was fifty years ago."

This logic is so tortured as to be sad or laughable, take your pick.

"Second, digital is superior to film. I had forgotten all the hassles associated with film; the cost, the inconvenience, and the delay. Today, everything converts to digital sooner or later, so add the hassle and expense of scanning."

So a little Fuji P&S (which he referenced later) is superior to an 8x10 transparency, just because it's digital? Bill, your problem is not that you have opinions on what equipment works best for you, it's that (with all due respect) you don't know how to write. Not everyone is a writer, not everyone can express themselves well online, so I'm not slagging you for that. I'm just stating that you clearly didn't fully think through what you were actually writing.

"From an engineering standpoint, a digital SLR is a more elegant image capturing machine than a film rangefinder camera."

I have yet to see a digital camera, especially a DSLR, that approaches the elegance of a Leica M, the new ZI ... hell, even my lowly Olympus 35SP blows away a Nikon or Canon dSLR ... in my estimation. Perhaps Bill should actually look up the definition of elegant and either change his adjective or add "in my opinion".

"A RF camera converts the fore-and-aft position of the lens to a split-image mechanism,"

I'm not optical engineer, but ... Huh? SO FREAKIN' WHAT?

"a 35mm camera requires that the image on the negative must be converted to digital."

Since when? Do you mean to say that I cannot take a 35mm negative (or transparency), and do a direct optical print/enlargement? Since I still have the darkroom equipment to do so, is it now illegal to make optical prints? Hey everyone, let's sign a petition because the government is once again assaulting the rights of us poor photographers!!

"Today, most of the people on RFF prefer shooting with 35mm RF cameras. That's fine; "

As other have noted, if that's the way you feel, then why post here (as your supposed last post) all the previous stuff? Why not just say, as others have indicated, "I tried RFs again but they just don't turn my crank. Thanks for being a great group!"

"Just don't try to blow smoke up my butt by telling me that a 35mm rangefinder camera is superior to a DLSR in some ways"

Ah, I see. It is about drama. OK, the internet was made for you, Bill. It's just that on this site drama queens are quickly identified and called out.

Good luck, Bill. If you end up on other forums, maybe you could use a word processor or even a simple text editor to compose your posts, save them to files and re-read them the next day to see if you really wrote what you meant ... try to read from a neutral POV (think of how your English teachers evaluated writing assignments), or maybe get a neutral person (non-photographer friend, etc.) to evaluate before you actually post.

EDIT: Steve and Frank posted while I was composing, and made my point more succinctly. But I'm keeping mine intact since ... oh, I just am. 😀
 
BillRogers said:
Somehow, Leica has created a cult of mindless people (mostly male) who think anything with Leica on it is perfect, and all other cameras are not even worth mentioning. They like to huddle in the corner comparing the exterior finish on their cameras while muttering strange incantations and worshiping the golden statue of St. Barnack.
"Don't feed the troll" may have been the best piece of advice on this thread...

...but I'll ignore it (again) anyway. I've already said my bit on this thread earlier, and maybe took the wrong tone (more in sorrow than in anger etc.) I may be mindless (I don't think so, but I would say that - now wouldn't I); I guess I'm male (I was last time I looked); I do own a Leica but hardly think its perfect (given my preferred RF is from Konica, as are my preferred lenses); I mention other cameras - even in this thread - including (apostate that I am) favourable mentions of "evil incarnate" in the form of my Canon dSLR (which I love); I care not about exterior finish (my M3 is, shock, engraved with non-Lieca, um, stuff which I care about only because it let me buy a user camera at a lower price than I might otherwise have paid); I don't own a Barnack - though I think I'd like to try (but only in FED guise, because of my Leica-bigoted natural cheapskatedness).

Let's face it - if Bill's the judge then I must be guilty as charged. There's a kangaroo court, somewhere near you, that needs Bill's services.

...Mike
 
You know what? Thanks Bill for this thread. I have enjoyed it. Thanks to the contributors also for making it enjoyable. It's all about entertainment.
 
Awwww... is it over?? I just got to read all of the posts and haven't yet been able to contribute to the discussion. I always seem to get to the party after the best part is over. Boo-hoo.
 
well, it's been fun.

you all have behaved in an exemplary manner and bill had a day of jollies.

but i think it's time we move on and so i will be closing this thread.

enjoy rover's birthday - have some cake.

joe
 
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