My first Leica IIIc and first Leica, some questions..

[Fadedsun]

Disclaimer: I asked this in one of the stickies, but it didn't seem anyone looks at it anymore so I decided to make a thread. Hope that's not a problem.

Hi guys. I'm new to board, and now a proud owner of my first Leica camera, which is the Leica iiic. A 1946 model. I had a couple questions about the range/view finders. I'm not sure if there's something wrong with mine. First of all, my RF came equipped with a yellow filter over it (supposedly to ease judging distances), the VF seems fine, but everything seems very far away. Does the vf show what the lens will actually capture like my Canon A-1 with 50mm does?

Regarding the RF: it seems a little dim, and it's so hard to make out and focus what's in the RF. And is everything supposed to be so zoomed in? I feel like I can't get reasonably close to a subject, because when I look through the RF I can barely see the subject anymore, let alone try and focus it in the RF. Is this normal? And is it normal for the RF to be hard to use in dim lighting? I was trying to use it in my room at night with only my lights on and I could barely make anything out when looking through, but the VF was fine.

Thanks to anyone that can clear this up! Besides this, the camera is wonderful and I can't wait to use it. Oh, and it came equipped with a 1954 Elmar 50mm f3.5 lens. The aperture adjustment is a bit of a pain, but from what I read on the boards this is a fantastic lens to own, though I think a Summitar might be more up my alley in the future with the more modern aperture adjustment.

 

[Pioneer]

The rangefinder on the IIIc is magnified to allow more accurate focusing. The viewfinder will show the field of view of a 50mm lens, which is why things look distant. The framing won't be quite as exact as what you get with an SLR like your Canon. Framing with a rangefinder is a bit more fluid and will take a little time to get used to.

Usually the little yellow filter was used to help improve contrast in the rangefinder to aid in focusing. If your rangefinder is dim and hard to focus with then yours may require cleaning or perhaps some parts replacement. There are several good repair techs who can do this type of work. Youxin Ye is one, but there are others as well. Mine are not tough to work with, and are usually even easier to focus in dim light than an SLR.

I am very fond of my Elmar 50, even though the aperture adjustment is a bit tougher to get used to. The Summitar is also a very good lens and you may prefer it, though it is a touch larger than the Elmar.

Anyway, welcome. I'm sure you will get lots of responses and more suggestions.

 

[Greyscale]

The IIIC has a focus-able rangefinder, move the little lever to the left of the rewind knob until you get as clear an image as you can.

 

[Particular]

It is quite common for the rangefinder to get dim. If cleaning doesn't solve it perhaps the beam splitting mirror is de-silvering. If you are good with a screw driver, it is fairly simple to replace it. This is the part you need.

Or else one of the repair people can do this.
The IIIc is always a bit squinty, but if the finder is clean it is a pleasure to focus.

 

[Scrambler]

The RF window is magnified and is not intended for anything but focusing. The viewfinder window is always small (50% magnification) and is the view of a 50mm lens, but not exactly and not corrected for parallax with focal distance.

I consider the contrast filter on the RF to be a sign of the half-silvered mirror failing. Get a new one and remove the yellow filter.

 

[bence8810]

I have a Leica M3 and a Leica IIIc and I also thought the IIIc was dim but it was just dimmer than the M3. I also have a hard time focusing in the dark.

What helps sometimes is to look for some vertical lines, the person's eye or the eye glass' edge etc. If you don't have anything vertical, turn the camera 90degrees into Portrait orientation and try that way.

If you are only used to SLR's, the IIIc will indeed appear dim but once you get used to it like above mentioned, it's a great little camera to use.

Having said what I said above, your RF might indeed need servicing, I think the best would be to compare your view finder to someone else's if you can. Just wanted to mention that in general the IIIc will def look dimmer than your SLR even when perfectly fine!

Ben

 

[Fadedsun]

Thanks for all the info everyone!

I actually went ahead earlier and contacted Youxin Ye about CLAing my iiic and he gave me his going rates. I live in MA as well, so it wouldn't be so bad to send it to him. I'm going to shoot a test roll of film with it first before I send it off just to see how they turn out. I took the yellow filter off my RF and it made it a bit better IMO. I didn't like having the filter on there.

Regarding the 50mm lens and the viewfinder. If I'm understanding this correctly, the 50mm lens on my Leica is still "seeing" the same view as the 50 mm lens on my Canon A-1? The only difference is that the viewfinder on my Canon is much more magnified, so if I took identical pictures with the different cameras, the view of the pictures would technically come out the same way? Sorry if this is a dumb question, the different view in my viewfinders is confusing me a bit about how my pictures might turn out.

 

[madNbad]

It's the difference between looking at a subject with your eye or looking at through a lens. If you have been using SLR cameras and just moving to a rangefinder, it is a much different experience. Looking through the viewfinder, even the tiny one on a IIIc, you are seeing the entire scene in real time. When viewed with an SLR it is what will, mostly, appear on the final frame be it film or digital. The advantage to a rangefinder is the ability to see objects entering the frame as the photo is captured and no mirror blackout. A IIIc may not be the ideal rangefinder for someone making the transition from a SLR but is a great tool for someone looking to expand their photographic vision. Youxin Ye will clean and recalibrate your IIIc, making it a much more useful camera. Spend a few dollars and have it done. It will make the new experience much more enjoyable and you will quickly understand why the rangefinder camera is still valued in this day and age.

 

[Luddite Frank]

As far as what you see through the eye-piece vs. what the camera puts on the film,
a 50mm lens shooting on 24 x 36 mm frame of 35 mm sees the same thing , no matter what type / brand of camera: RF, scale-focus, fixed-focus, SLR.

The "standard lens" for a given film format (eg: 35mm, 6x6 cm, 6x9 cm, 4 x 5 in, etc.) usually has a focal length equivalent to the diagonal measurement across the film gate.

For 35mm cameras, the 50 mm lens is the "standard" lens, giving approximately the same field of view and perspective as the human eye.

What IS different between SLR cameras ( and ground-glass view cameras ) and View finder / RF cameras is a phenomenon known as "parallax" : which is a term for the variance between what the viewfinder sees and what the lens / film-frame "sees"... this occurs because the taking lens and the viewfinder do not share the same image axis . This variance increases the closer the subject comes to the camera.

A few RF cameras, such as the Leica M and the Nikon SP have an automatic parallax correction built-into the VF. With other cameras, there might be a set of bright-lines ( or second set of bright-lines ) in the VF window for subjects closer than 10-12 feet.


I've been "Skunked" more than a few times when I've forgotten to correct for parallax when shooting close subjects... in one case, I was trying to take a "selfie" of a friend and I reflected in a plate-glass window... we were about 8 ft from the window. When I got the prints back from the lab, I had a great picture of the window and the buildings across the street, but neither my friend nor I were in the shot ! 😱

 

[Pioneer]

With a rangefinder you are not looking through the lens at all. With the SLR you are looking through the lens. In most pictures you won't notice any difference. What you see in the Leica viewfinder is what you will see on your film.

However, as you get closer to what you want to get on film the difference between where the little viewfinder window is and where the lens is will begin to show up on film. As Luddite Frank said, you may think you have something in your picture and later you realize that you didn't.

Getting the hang of this "parallax" (the difference between what the viewfinder window sees and what the lens sees) will take a little practice. But after just a bit you will begin to wonder what the fuss was all about.

 

[Fadedsun]

Thanks a lot again for the info guys. I'm not sure why I didn't notice before about the parallax. The viewfinder and lens aren't matched up. Of course! Silly of me not to notice that. Does this only become a problem as your subjects get closer? If I was shooting at 15 feet, would I need to worry too much about framing vs shooting a closeup portrait of someone?

 

[siracusa]

The parallax is a bigger issue when photographing subjects that are closer. If you find the lack of parallax correction annoying, you can always get one of the separate parallax corrected viewfinders. They can be picked up at fairly reasonable prices. I have one but never use it because you just sort of get used to the absence of parallax correction and adjust a little anyway.
Worth bearing in mind that the viewfinder on a screwmount Leica isn't the most accurate framing anyway (or at least, not to me - YMMV).
Despite this, I find screwmount Leicas incredible fun to use. I gave away my IIIf to a friend and ended up buying another one. With a collapsible lens on it - I tend to use an Industar 22 on mine - it's thoroughly pocketable and great fun to use.

 

[Luddite Frank]

FWIW, the Parallax adjustment lever on my Nikon Varifocal finder has settings for 3 ft - 4 ft -6 ft -10 ft - 15 ft - INF ( or close to that; going by memory here). There is a little lever on the mounting shoe that tilts the front of the finder further and further downward as you set it for closer and closer distances.

Other finders have rotating eyepieces, or other methods of correcting for parallax.

Once you're beyond 15 ft , parallax error becomes negligible.

At 15 ft and less, parallax error increases, the error becoming greater as one gets closer.

For the Barnack Leica, it is primarily a vertcal adjustment, as the VF is fairly centered above the taking lens. For some cameras, with a combined VF / RF (such as the Contax anb Nikon RF cameras), the compensation must be a combination of vertical AND horizontal adjustment, due to the main viewing window being to one side of the taking lens.

 

[bence8810]

Also worth mentioning on the whole Through the Lens / RF discussion that the IIIc's viewfinder is showing you an image that you will "more or less" get with a 50mm lens onto your film. If you attach a lens with a different focal length like a 35 or 90 etc, you will not get the right image.

For 35 your image will end up much bigger than what you see in the "50mm" viewfinder. For the 90 on the other hand, it'll be a smaller image, something you see in the viewfinder in the center but will not include the whole thing shown in the VF.

It actually makes sense if you think it through.
You can get extra external finders that would show you an image smaller or greater than what your built-in VF shows. You'd still focus with the Rangefinder in the camera and then compose with the external VF.

🙂 welcome to the Rangefinder fun!
This thread just reminded me how little I use my IIIc and will start bringing it with me from next monday every day. It's pocketable as I have the 50mm summitar which collapses into the camera.

Ben

 

[MaZo]

You may also think of adding an external 50mm viewfinder to your IIIc. The thing is called SBOOI in Leica nomenclature and will make viewing A LOT easier. And it has some basic parallax aid line too. It also sits exactly over the optical path of the lens and not somewhat to the left as the VF of the camera.

 

[john neal]

The SBOOI is an amazing tool - 1:1 magnification, so you can shoot with both eyes open and see the "projected" frame lines.

I must dig mine out and use it more.

 

[Fadedsun]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice everyone. I stuck some film in the camera and decided to go out shooting. I'm on a bit of budget right now, so I'm going to take the camera around as is until I can afford to get it CLA'd. I'm also going to practice with it a bit to get used to the parallax. I'll come back in the future to let you all know how my first roll on the iiic came out. I'll be excited to see the results and what errors I made.

 

[bence8810]

Thanks for all the wonderful advice everyone. I stuck some film in the camera and decided to go out shooting. I'm on a bit of budget right now, so I'm going to take the camera around as is until I can afford to get it CLA'd. I'm also going to practice with it a bit to get used to the parallax. I'll come back in the future to let you all know how my first roll on the iiic came out. I'll be excited to see the results and what errors I made.

Looking forward to your pics.

Ben

 

[Fadedsun]

Man, using this camera is so much fun. It's light weight, easy to carry around and I can barely hear the shutter compared to my A-1. It certainly gets me some looks from time to time. People looking down at my hand and probably thinking "The heck is that?"

Anyone have any suggestions for a strap? The loop holes on the side of the camera look tiny, so I was thinking of having a thin piece of leather customized for it at a shop.

I think my range finder does need to fixed because even when in focus the image still looks slightly blurry. Pretty sure that's not normal. I've been zone focusing for the most part, which is good practice anyway trying to judge distances.

 

[bence8810]

Man, using this camera is so much fun. It's light weight, easy to carry around and I can barely hear the shutter compared to my A-1. It certainly gets me some looks from time to time. People looking down at my hand and probably thinking "The heck is that?" Anyone have any suggestions for a strap? The loop holes on the side of the camera look tiny, so I was thinking of having a thin piece of leather customized for it at a shop. I think my range finder does need to fixed because even when in focus the image still looks slightly blurry. Pretty sure that's not normal. I've been zone focusing for the most part, which is good practice anyway trying to judge distances.

Glad to hear you are having fun 🙂

Have you tried holding your right index finger over the RF window on the right hand side (if I recall correctly) and then look through the opening that shows the zoomed image and set the sharpness with the lever on the left hand side at the top. You should get a crystal clear view without the RF patch in it.

Ben