eko
Newbie
Hi, I'm a new member, but I have visited before and have picked up some useful info & advice reading other people's posts.
I recently bought 5 different cameras from separate FSU sellers on ebay (all with pretty high feedback ratings) and they arrived this week. I'm not going to go into a long story, but these are my impressions:
1 camera works fine (a Fed 2) and I'm very happy with the feel and looks of it.
1 camera (Fed 5B) is clunky and needs a lot of TLC to make it something that I'd be happy using.
A Kiev 4a looks ok, but as I change from a slow shutter speed to a faster one, the bottom shutter curtain comes down as i do so, but not the top one - therefore exposing the film. Does anyone have any experiences with something like this? Would it be a difficult job to fix?
Another camera - Zorki 6 - looks perfect, but someone's previously done a bit of amateur metalwork on the camera body and the film spool and it's now completely unusable. I've asked the seller to send me a replacement.
And the last one - a Zorki 4 advertised as 'mint condition' and working fine - had non-working shutters at low speeds - I've asked for a partial refund as I want to keep the Jupiter 8 that came with it. The seller is saying that's ok but he can't give me a refund till next week as my payment is completed but 'Funds are not yet available' as they are on hold in Paypal. Does this sound real? - I'm not au fait with the way Paypal operates when it comes to selling and receiving payments.
So that's it - 1 working camera out of 5, and 2 or 3 complete duds, plus some hassle getting refunds or replacements. Not a great success rate - next time I'm going thru that person that everyone recommends. I did have a good experience with my first FSU - a Zorki 4k - on ebay last year, which is why I felt I could trust getting a bundle of cameras in one go this time. But probably not a good idea.
Did I have bad luck or was that a reasonable strike rate?
Thanks!
I recently bought 5 different cameras from separate FSU sellers on ebay (all with pretty high feedback ratings) and they arrived this week. I'm not going to go into a long story, but these are my impressions:
1 camera works fine (a Fed 2) and I'm very happy with the feel and looks of it.
1 camera (Fed 5B) is clunky and needs a lot of TLC to make it something that I'd be happy using.
A Kiev 4a looks ok, but as I change from a slow shutter speed to a faster one, the bottom shutter curtain comes down as i do so, but not the top one - therefore exposing the film. Does anyone have any experiences with something like this? Would it be a difficult job to fix?
Another camera - Zorki 6 - looks perfect, but someone's previously done a bit of amateur metalwork on the camera body and the film spool and it's now completely unusable. I've asked the seller to send me a replacement.
And the last one - a Zorki 4 advertised as 'mint condition' and working fine - had non-working shutters at low speeds - I've asked for a partial refund as I want to keep the Jupiter 8 that came with it. The seller is saying that's ok but he can't give me a refund till next week as my payment is completed but 'Funds are not yet available' as they are on hold in Paypal. Does this sound real? - I'm not au fait with the way Paypal operates when it comes to selling and receiving payments.
So that's it - 1 working camera out of 5, and 2 or 3 complete duds, plus some hassle getting refunds or replacements. Not a great success rate - next time I'm going thru that person that everyone recommends. I did have a good experience with my first FSU - a Zorki 4k - on ebay last year, which is why I felt I could trust getting a bundle of cameras in one go this time. But probably not a good idea.
Did I have bad luck or was that a reasonable strike rate?
Thanks!
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bowieknife
Established
Hello, I got a Zorki 1 (from 1951) and a Kiev 4 (1983) from FSU sellers- both cameras came with their respective period lenses, and both work fine !
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Welcome! Probably a strike rate that's on par with other eBay FSU acquisitions. I take it these sellers are all in Russia or Ukraine? I've actually had good luck with overseas sellers of the FSU rangefinders, but not all have.
I will say that I'm not surprised the FED 2 seems better than the FED 5B -- the 5B was probably as bad as you're going to get, in terms of USSR quality control. What you describe with the Kiev is a common problem, but one that's not a difficult fix, by all accounts. Google Jerry Sorin (in NYC) for Kiev repairs. The Zorkis are generally good. I think you just got a bum 6; they are generally very nice cameras. Long baseline, and neat looking to boot. Can't comment on your PayPal issues on the 4 since I don't use PP. (You do get high marks in my book for using "au fait," however.)
Keep us posted on your progress with these. And I recommend getting a Moskva-5.
I will say that I'm not surprised the FED 2 seems better than the FED 5B -- the 5B was probably as bad as you're going to get, in terms of USSR quality control. What you describe with the Kiev is a common problem, but one that's not a difficult fix, by all accounts. Google Jerry Sorin (in NYC) for Kiev repairs. The Zorkis are generally good. I think you just got a bum 6; they are generally very nice cameras. Long baseline, and neat looking to boot. Can't comment on your PayPal issues on the 4 since I don't use PP. (You do get high marks in my book for using "au fait," however.)
Keep us posted on your progress with these. And I recommend getting a Moskva-5.
andephotographic
Established
Regarding the paypal thing, how did you pay the seller? From your paypal balance or from a credit card/bank account? I think payments from your pp balance are pretty quick but if it was from your cc or bank then the payment might not have cleared into their account yet. Though, in that case I'd be surprised that they dispatched the goods.
It's maybe more likely that the seller withdrew the money from the sale from their pp account to their bank account but the funds haven't reached the bank account yet (god knows why but it can take a week) and they don't have any paypal balance or funds in the bank to send you a refund, they need the funds to get from paypal to the bank before they can send them back the other way.
A decent seller would leave the funds in pp until they received word you were happy with the purchase either direct from you or by way of positive feedback (this is how I try and work now) or have a balance they could refund you from but not everyone does this.
Edit: According to this, http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/protection-programs.html you have 45 days after the purchase date to open a dispute so I wouldn't worry at the moment, if it gets to next week and the seller tries to put you off again then I'd think about starting a dispute.
It's maybe more likely that the seller withdrew the money from the sale from their pp account to their bank account but the funds haven't reached the bank account yet (god knows why but it can take a week) and they don't have any paypal balance or funds in the bank to send you a refund, they need the funds to get from paypal to the bank before they can send them back the other way.
A decent seller would leave the funds in pp until they received word you were happy with the purchase either direct from you or by way of positive feedback (this is how I try and work now) or have a balance they could refund you from but not everyone does this.
Edit: According to this, http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/buy/protection-programs.html you have 45 days after the purchase date to open a dispute so I wouldn't worry at the moment, if it gets to next week and the seller tries to put you off again then I'd think about starting a dispute.
eko
Newbie
Thanks. Yeah, all were from Ukraine/Russian Fed. The Zorki 6 looked like it would have been a great camera, shame someone took a drill and metalgrinder to it. And the Fed 2 is beautiful.
Hi Andephotographic - just seen your comment. That's made feel a bit more confident on the payment issue - but I'll see how it goes.
Thanks.
Hi Andephotographic - just seen your comment. That's made feel a bit more confident on the payment issue - but I'll see how it goes.
Thanks.
andephotographic
Established
No problem. Hope you manage to get a camera/lens that works and works for you and get the duds returned refunded etc.
You payed by Paypal so there's pretty much nothing to worry about, they tend side with the buyer in any dispute, trust me, I've been on the wrong end of it a few times!
You payed by Paypal so there's pretty much nothing to worry about, they tend side with the buyer in any dispute, trust me, I've been on the wrong end of it a few times!
picker77
Established
You could have saved yourself a lot of grief and especially a lot of time by buying from Yuri at Fedka. His shop did two CLA's for me a couple of years ago, and both came out great. My favorite is a brown skinned semi-new Fed 3b that I bought from overseas and sent to Yuri for a $90 CLA and "smoothing" job as soon as I got it. Ever since, the advance and shutter feel and work as slick and quiet as any M2 or M3 I've ever used, and that's the honest truth. All speeds are right on the money, too, per my shutter tester. So for a total of $130 I ended up with a FINE screwmount rangefinder that's easy to load and is a pleasure to use. The only thing I like better on my M2 is the VF, which is nice and clear on the Fed but tiny compared to the nice bright M2 finder.
wolves3012
Veteran
First off, welcome to RFF. I'd say your strike rate is fairly typical. I bought almost all of my FSUs off Ebay and a fair proportion of them were in less than perfect order, although I was lucky enough that none of them was actually broken (except one I bought that was sold as parts/not working). I was able to get them all working perfectly with some work, ranging from trivial to fairly major service work.
The fault you describe on the Kiev 4a is one I've come across and there is a likely and simple fix. This is not guaranteed but often works. Take off the lens and the back. Wind the shutter on a slow speed, then change it to a faster one, keep going until the curtains separate by the most you can achieve. Now grip the curtain gently by using your first finger through the lens mount and your thumb at the back, with your hand around the top or bottom of the body. Lift the curtain back up to close the gap. Hopefully, you'll find the problem has gone away. Fire the shutter a few times and try changing speeds again to see.
The fault you describe on the Kiev 4a is one I've come across and there is a likely and simple fix. This is not guaranteed but often works. Take off the lens and the back. Wind the shutter on a slow speed, then change it to a faster one, keep going until the curtains separate by the most you can achieve. Now grip the curtain gently by using your first finger through the lens mount and your thumb at the back, with your hand around the top or bottom of the body. Lift the curtain back up to close the gap. Hopefully, you'll find the problem has gone away. Fire the shutter a few times and try changing speeds again to see.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Welcome aboard. My first reaction was that this is a typical ebay problem.
Then I remembered buying an expensive and famous MF camera from a well known and respected dealer and finding that the aperture ring had snapped and been repaired with sticky tape. It took me a week to discover this when I wondered about an odd reflection. The tape had been cut very precisely and ended at a point where you wouldn't notice it. Anyway, I got it exchanged and no problems. The point being that it took me a while and an accident to discover it and the dealer hadn't noticed either and yet probably had more experience than me.
The same thing has happened with a Leica or two.
When I buy cameras I check them carefully, taking a box of batteries of all shapes and sizes with me, listening to them and so on. And I still make mistakes and end up getting a expensive repair done or throwing the thing at the wall and hoping it will bounce into the WPB. Often a roll of film will be put through the thing and the fault (slow speeds, pin holes, f'instance) will only show on one or two frames.
And a serious test can be expensive; a 36 exposure film is needed (not cheap rubbish either), a sunny day and a dull cloudy one, flash, portraits, landscapes, lots of detail and so on. Going through all the stops and speeds is tedious and difficult. I even have a list I tick off and still they get through. Try deliberately using f/2 for several different shots to test a Summar, for example.
So I've sympathy for the buyer and seller. You sometimes have to accept that, with the best will, both of you can make mistakes. Buyers often make mistakes about the lenses description. They expect mint when the thing is described to warn them of flaws; usually a speck or two of dust. And there's the difference between a novice and an experienced buyers/sellers expectations - probably more important.
On top of that, film has an amount of latitude that won't show up the speeds being out by a good deal. A one hour lab can adjust for about 2 or 3 stops worth of problems. So to get it right a technician ought to go over the thing and that means time and expensive equipment.
What I try to do is buy good looking stuff, that seems to work OK and expect a repair sooner or later. After all, with screw thread Leica, Contax, FED, Zorki and so on the thing could be anything from 50 to 80 years old; neglected or perfectly maintained and so. And every now and then my £5 lens and $10 body turn out to be perfect and that makes up for those dreadful Summars.
Regards, David
Welcome aboard. My first reaction was that this is a typical ebay problem.
Then I remembered buying an expensive and famous MF camera from a well known and respected dealer and finding that the aperture ring had snapped and been repaired with sticky tape. It took me a week to discover this when I wondered about an odd reflection. The tape had been cut very precisely and ended at a point where you wouldn't notice it. Anyway, I got it exchanged and no problems. The point being that it took me a while and an accident to discover it and the dealer hadn't noticed either and yet probably had more experience than me.
The same thing has happened with a Leica or two.
When I buy cameras I check them carefully, taking a box of batteries of all shapes and sizes with me, listening to them and so on. And I still make mistakes and end up getting a expensive repair done or throwing the thing at the wall and hoping it will bounce into the WPB. Often a roll of film will be put through the thing and the fault (slow speeds, pin holes, f'instance) will only show on one or two frames.
And a serious test can be expensive; a 36 exposure film is needed (not cheap rubbish either), a sunny day and a dull cloudy one, flash, portraits, landscapes, lots of detail and so on. Going through all the stops and speeds is tedious and difficult. I even have a list I tick off and still they get through. Try deliberately using f/2 for several different shots to test a Summar, for example.
So I've sympathy for the buyer and seller. You sometimes have to accept that, with the best will, both of you can make mistakes. Buyers often make mistakes about the lenses description. They expect mint when the thing is described to warn them of flaws; usually a speck or two of dust. And there's the difference between a novice and an experienced buyers/sellers expectations - probably more important.
On top of that, film has an amount of latitude that won't show up the speeds being out by a good deal. A one hour lab can adjust for about 2 or 3 stops worth of problems. So to get it right a technician ought to go over the thing and that means time and expensive equipment.
What I try to do is buy good looking stuff, that seems to work OK and expect a repair sooner or later. After all, with screw thread Leica, Contax, FED, Zorki and so on the thing could be anything from 50 to 80 years old; neglected or perfectly maintained and so. And every now and then my £5 lens and $10 body turn out to be perfect and that makes up for those dreadful Summars.
Regards, David
ray*j*gun
Veteran
I will only buy from ebay vendors that have STRONG recommendations form members or others that I trust. I have been burned too many times and am not interested in the hassle!
eko
Newbie
Hi - thanks for all your comments, it's reassuring (but also a bit depressing) to know others have had similiar problems. I've tried the remedy suggested for the Kiev but no change so far - I don't know much about the shutter workings, but it looks as if there should be something holding the bottom curtain up when the speed is changed, and this either isn't working or isn't there anymore. Anyway I've contacted the seller and I'll see what happens.
Next time is definitely Fedka - I'm waiting for some straps & lens hoods from him to arrive, and next time I'll be going for one of his cameras.
Cheers all.
Next time is definitely Fedka - I'm waiting for some straps & lens hoods from him to arrive, and next time I'll be going for one of his cameras.
Cheers all.
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bowieknife
Established
don't think problems only happen with FSU cameras:
once I bought a '32 Contax 1 from a guy in Germany, he wasn't honest about the camera either ( well he wrote that it belonged to his grandpa, and always worked ), I had to pay a full CLA of the shutter, and the lens had lots of fungus, servicing camera and lens cost some €340 ($400), but now it works as it should
once I bought a '32 Contax 1 from a guy in Germany, he wasn't honest about the camera either ( well he wrote that it belonged to his grandpa, and always worked ), I had to pay a full CLA of the shutter, and the lens had lots of fungus, servicing camera and lens cost some €340 ($400), but now it works as it should
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Please don't scrap them. Oleg at OKVintagecamera.com can sort them out cheaply and he's highly recommended by a lot of us. In the dark my FED 1 and Leica II feel the same and Oleg did the FED for a fraction of the cost of the Leica's work. Do a search on him in these forums and you might be re-assured. You'll also find that a lot of people have had very pleasant experiences buying on ebay, I certainly have.
Regards, David
Please don't scrap them. Oleg at OKVintagecamera.com can sort them out cheaply and he's highly recommended by a lot of us. In the dark my FED 1 and Leica II feel the same and Oleg did the FED for a fraction of the cost of the Leica's work. Do a search on him in these forums and you might be re-assured. You'll also find that a lot of people have had very pleasant experiences buying on ebay, I certainly have.
Regards, David
summar
Well-known
I bought a Zorki 4 and a FED 5 on eBay. They worked well at first, then developed shutter problems. I also didn't like the shutter-speed markings crowded so close together, hard for me to see (middle-age sight). Since repairs would cost more than I paid for the cameras and I have zero mechanical ability I gave them as a gift to a talented tinkerer who was able to get them working again. Good for him.
Meanwhile I bought a Kiev 4A with 50mm and 35mm lenses from Fedka in New York which works just fine. I was always curious about the classic Contaxes, and I find the Kiev a lot of fun to use.
My only completely successful Soviet eBay purchase was a Moskva 5. It's awkward to use, but I wanted to try the 6x9 format and I like the results.
Meanwhile I bought a Kiev 4A with 50mm and 35mm lenses from Fedka in New York which works just fine. I was always curious about the classic Contaxes, and I find the Kiev a lot of fun to use.
My only completely successful Soviet eBay purchase was a Moskva 5. It's awkward to use, but I wanted to try the 6x9 format and I like the results.
andephotographic
Established
Got myself a really cheap Industar 61 last week from a seller in Ireland and I quite fancy upgrading to the newer 61 L?D but can't the only ones I can find are from Russia, Latvia etc and I'm kinda wary to buy from them after reading all the reports on here.
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Again, Fedka is the easiest way around that. He has them for $49. Or consider buying one with a FED-4 or 5 attached. There are a couple on ebay right now from US sellers.
andephotographic
Established
I'm in the UK so while Fedka will undoubtedly be more reliable, things seem to be taking ages to get here from the US. Been waiting almost 3 weeks for a Bessa L. Plus the prospect of paying import duty makes the FSU stuff less attractive.
I'm watching a few Zorkis with J-8s on them in the UK as that's another route I'd consider but I think the I-61 L/D is likely to be less hassle once I get it here.
pakeha
Well-known
I`ve brought from moscowphoto [ new old stock] no problems and arrived in about 2 weeks [ to NZ]
Look, there is a lot of `angst' round here about Russian/Ukrainian dealers,the expectations of these dealers and the very old products they sell for a few bucks is way outa line. Re- read all of David Hughs and wolves posts.Gotta have some balance.
regards
oftheherd
Veteran
My kiev 4a just developed the same problem. I don't know if it was what you described above or just exercising it a bit going up and down the shutter speeds several times, but it now seems to work.
Thanks.