my Leica Store Berlin experience - snobbism at its best

Charles Bogel said:
There are people who NEVER buy, but who want to handle every camera and lens they look at.
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Well I guess there are. Thing is, how can a salesperson tell a person that's not shopping seriously now but might come back in a week, from someone who will never make a purchase?

Sure, you might see that someone clumsy with cameras unlikely will buy a Leica, but it wasn't the case with the original poster.
 
I'm in it to have fun and enjoy myself. I've sold things other than cameras worth well over a million dollars.

In all things, I don't feel the need to humor jerks overrides lowering my self-esteem to cater to a bozo. Intelligent, gentile human beings get treated like gold by me.

Like I said, others can do anything they want and I don't blame them.

PS: Bill Gates has made much of his fortune by taking advantage of the extreme ignorance of befuddled non-technically inclined people. He's a classic con-artist.
 
In my case, I can tell you I could always tell a buyer from a non-buyer at a glance.
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Malarkey.

If you had that ability, (and you don't; no one does) you could be the top-grossing motivational speaker in the world.

I can't tell you how many times I've been in a camera store with a roll of hundreds in my pocket, intent on a purchase, and left without spending a dime because of a "bad hit." Usually, frankly, a crappy salesman. On the other hand, I've popped into a camera store on the spur of the moment and ended up making an unexpected, impulse purchase because of an attentive, knowledgable salesperson. (That's how I ended up with a Hexar RF kit...!)

Customers are nothing more than an opportunity. A salesman has to give his best to every customer and trust the numbers will come out his way in the end.
 
this is very korny, but I love the scene in Pretty Woman where Julia Roberts returns to the store that wouldn't sell to her to show them what a terrible mistake they made.
 
I am from Berlin and know this shop very well. You are absolutely right. I experienced the same when wearing casual clothes. But the people at Leica Berlin get nicer after you have spent a few thoursands euros there ;-) Last time they offered me some coffee while i was waiting in the line. I don't know if that was because they remembered me, maybe they just saw the MP hanging around my neck. Nevertheless, (potential) customers shouldn't be treated like this... Cheers, Guido
 
memphis said:
this reminds me, ever see High Fidelity:


Rob: Liking both Marvin Gaye and Art Garfunkel is like supporting both the Israelis and the Palestinians.
Laura: No, it's really not, Rob. You know why? Because Marvin Gaye and Art Garfunkel make pop records.
Rob: Made. Made. Marvin Gaye is dead. His father shot him.


Rob: What came first, the music or the misery? People worry about kids playing with guns, or watching violent videos, that some sort of culture of violence will take them over. Nobody worries about kids listening to thousands, literally thousands of songs about heartbreak, rejection, pain, misery and loss. Did I listen to pop music because I was miserable? Or was I miserable because I listened to pop music?


Barry's Customer: Hi, do you have the song "I Just Called To Say I Love You?" It's for my daughter's birthday.
Barry: Yea we have it.
Barry's Customer: Great, Great, can I have it?
Barry: No, no, you can't.
Barry's Customer: Why not?
Barry: Well, it's sentimental tacky crap. Do we look like the kind of store that sells I Just Called to Say I Love You? Go to the mall.


Rob: Get your patchouli stink outta my store.


Customer: I don't have that record... I'll buy it for forty.
Rob: Sold.
Customer: Now why would you sell it to me and not to him?
Barry: Because you're not a geek, Louis.
Customer: You guys are snobs.
Dick: No, we're not.
Customer: Yeah, seriously, you're totally elitist. You feel like the unappreciated scholars, so you **** onto people who know lesser than you.
Rob, Barry, Dick: No!
Customer: Which is everybody...
Rob, Barry, Dick: Yeah...
Customer: That's a bit sad.
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I come across that kind of attitude in almost every Indie/Hipster record store I go to which is one reason I normally end up frequenting Electronic/Dance music stores which are often far more welcoming and let you play anything before you buy (or don’t).

I remember going into a great Urban music store in Vancouver on a rainy Sunday and even after I made it clear to the sales clerk that I didn’t have any money he started pulling out record after record that he thought I’d like and he seemed a little miffed that I had to leave after 2 hours.
 
I prefer buying things off a dirty blanket at a flea market or yard sale anyway.

I very rarely buy anything in a store unless it's a cheap commodity that I really need.

I'm not a big one for the "upscale experience" anyway. It's strictly for the saps.
 
This is just one of many reasons I do all of my camera shopping online. As Jean Paul Sartre said: "Other people are Hell."

/T
 
Luckily enough nobody is forced to buy at Leica Berlin.

I walked into a small used camera shop called ASA 90 once, here in Berlin down in Neukölln. He had a Pentacon Six with bellows unit on the counter. I asked the guy whether I could have a look at it, and he said "OK no problem". Then I asked if I could have a look at some other things that were standing around, and he looked at me and said "You know, if you see something here that interests you, just take it and try it out. I've made the experience that if a customer asks if it's OK to touch and try something, he usually won't break it. Just let me put everything back into its place afterwards".

I walked out with the bellows unit and some other Pentacon Six gear. This was a successful camera salesman.
 
Customers are nothing more than an opportunity. A salesman has to give his best to every customer and trust the numbers will come out his way in the end.


But you see, I don't have to give my best to every customer. I'm not doing it for a living. I'm doing it for my pleasure with people I like to deal with.
 
endustry said:
There's a shop in NYC with a young, ostensibly "hip" clerk who consistently exudes the kind of attitude I'm much more used to enduring at record shops and cafes. I'm not sure why he works there but after four visits I called it quits on the place. I guess I can handle the stuffy old man routine but the snarky young hipster is not something I want to find in a camera store.
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I think I know the store you mean. Would it kill them to put the lights on when a customer comes in?!
 
principe azul said:
Yup, they did that with me, too. And I said to them "You've been really helpful, even though you know I can't afford anything right now. Why?"

"Because you'll come back when you can."

And you know, I have. I've bought more stuff from them than from everywhere else put together.
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I love that Place! I think a big factor in why its so good is their respect for a fellow enthusiast, same goes for a good record store etc. I would Also wager that the staff at Apature are rather good Photographers, I think a large part of the Hostility in some places (and from some people here) comes from the fact that many of these staff are failed/untalented Photographers, and are insecure about their failings.
 
On the other hand, if you go to Kurland Photo in NYC, next to the Leica gallery, the help are all attitude-ridden hipsters.

They also happen to be extremely attractive female Eurasian and Asian early-twenty-something hipsters with enormous breasts and low-cut t-shirts.

I don't mind the attitude one single bit, from those nasty, stuck-up mincing think-they're-better-than-you-are trollops.
 
I've had the same treatment in London at a well known store near the British Museum, that was back in 2002, havn't been and won't go back. They even sold Voigtlanders!!! with that attitude God knows why. Perhaps I got the guy on an "off" day, but the damage is done as far as I'm concerned.
 
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John Robertson said:
I've had the same treatment in London at a well known store near the British Museum, that was back in 2002, havn't been and won't go back. They even sold Voigtlanders!!! with that attitude God knows why. Perhaps I got the guy on an "off" day, but the damage is done as far as I'm concerned.
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I'm in the same position, I’ll never spend a penny in that shop, but will continue to go in and look at the eye candy and if it annoys them that’s their problem, When I’m in a position to do so I’ll take my business to Aperture.
 
Well, I've only read the first page of this. I don't think I need to read more. I try to be nice to people most of the time. Who knows, maybe they are normally nice people who are just having a bad day. However, I will only take a certain amount of rudeness and I will let them know my displeasure in some way. It may be in the tip or lack of it, or calling attention to how I perceive their behavior. Most people like that glory in getting away with it. When they don't, they usually have an change of attitude.

My wife is Korean. She's pretty cool most of the time. However, there are times when she has felt not only that she wasn't treated right, but that it was because she was a short oriental. I then must make a snap decision as to whether or not to try to calm her down, or just step back out of the line of fire, and watch in awe. Again, most snobs are confident only when they are getting away with it. Suddenly they must become apologetic and deny their actions. It usually doesn't work out well for them.

I do like Bluesman's solution. I'll have to remember that for an appropriate time should I be so misfortunate as to need it.
 
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RXMD, you are so right, ASA 90 is a brillliant shop (here in Berlin), the guy is just gold!
But it's in a rather poor area, and that makes the difference! (they just sell used gear, and after a couple of great purchases there i asked him if he might have a mamiya 6 or 7 in the future. he just laughed at me and said that the only one he saw recently was from a guy who wanted to sell him an obvisouly stolen m7. he checked the number and took it on commision, the owner got it back that way.)
He is a cool guy running a little specialist shop in a non posh erea how wants to have a nice talk - very old fashioned. he made a brilliant 16mm film over the period of 5 years about the massive changes in this city. you can check it out on their website.

Highly recomendend shop which might be described as "the other side of scruffy Berlin", well, like the good part of this city: "poor but sexy;)

roger
 
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In stores that I know well, I always get treated well by people who know me. Occasionally when none of the longer serving clerks are available a new clerk tries the overbearing treatment on me. I then stop talking to them and just wait for one of the ones that know me. Easy.

In stores in other cities where I'm not known at all, it's always hit and miss. As a previous poster noted, Leica bei Meister in Hamburg is fairly good, and has been since the 60's in my experience, even though I've only walked in there maybe every 10 years. New York has generally been an unpleasant experience, but probably because I've generally walked into the larger stores. Tokyo has almost always been a good experience; Hong Kong less so.

One thing I've done in larger cities is ask a rude clerk where there is another store that sells Leica in the vicinity, preferably loud enough and with enough tone and body language to signify that I'd rather leave my money elsewhere. A couple of times a senior staff member then came up to me to offer to serve me.

Henning
 
"So don't buy anything there. Case closed."
that pretty much sums it up for me... practice the power of the consumer... don't buy anything there ever again. a few folks have that attitude and things will change in that store very, very quickly.
i run into that attitude very frequently. i happen to be a fan of all things leica... i also happen to be about 200 lbs, shaved head, heavily, heavily tatooed and kinda gruff looking (or so i've heard) 9 out of ten times i recieve crap service shopping for anything leica. i remember two years ago i went on the hunt for an r-d1s and an m6ttl... after several brush off's at the local shop i bought on line. i would rather buy local but damn if i was ever shopping there again! i did of course make damn sure they knew i had purchased both and they had lost the sale!
 
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