Yup, you nailed it. I'm a failed photographer. Couldn't take a pitcher or get one published to save my life. Thank God for online psychoanalysts. Woe is me.
I'm subservient to that huge class of people who know what they're doing, while I can only diddle around with bits of scratched glass and bent metal.
I'm subservient to that huge class of people who know what they're doing, while I can only diddle around with bits of scratched glass and bent metal.
Mohan said:
Anupam
Well-known
Charles Bogel said:
ROFLMAO !!
georgef
Well-known
principe azul said:
HA! Priceless!!!
georgef
Well-known
Charles Bogel said:
"We dont see the world the way it is, we see it the way we are..."
I will actually vote for moogman on this one: " Be humble, and you will earn respect, if not, at least you have your good "karma" intact!"
Life is good! Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.
aizan
Veteran
georgef said:
advertising is based on selling "the good life". they say "life is good" all the time.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
Bottom line is that people either on the sales/retail side or the customer/client side can have their individual moods and proclivities. These can change from day to day or from hour to hour. From the retail/sales side-view there are plenty of well meaning people that have no intention of buying anything but every intention of holding the salesclerk captive for their social entertainment or hobby needs. Just browsing....from the customer's side they might be needing some attention for a future purchase and this is a touchy balance for the retail sales person to acess. I have been on both sides of the fence here. One particular camera store in Hartford lost thousands in business from me because of a persistant snobby attitude. So everyone needs to see clearly, the salesperson has to remain zenlike in their initial approach to the customer but if this person turns out to be a drain then they need to be handled appropriately. The customer has to realize it is extremely difficult to run and maintain a brick and morter retail shop in the current economic environment with the internet and all and that in the camera business for every 50 to 100 inquiries there are only one or two major sales, this eventually leads to frustration and incredible time loss for the store. The retail shop personel need to be able to keep a positive attitude and just have fun as this will lead to better relations and more sales. The customer needs to realize and thank their lucky stars that anyone in their right mind would open and run a camera shop or any other kind of specialized retail store these days in their town (more and more camera shops are going out of business as we speak...why...the internet.... customers fondle the retail shop wares and then order cheaper online.) I think the statistics are that more than 90% of stores fail within the first 5 years of business. So if you have a retail store that you wish to stay in business in your area...support them or they wont be there long. I have owned my own retail shop for 14 years now...I've seen great customers and crappy ones. I've seen rich people try to grind me down for 1 nickle and steal from the shop when they think I'm not looking, I've seen a bum spend 30 grand in 4 weeks with me. It is the storekeepers job to sell and inform.... it is the customers job to buy and try to understand how hard it is to run a business today and not waste the storeowners time for ther own entertainment.
photogdave
Shops local
Well said Emile!
Jeroen
Well-known
About the 'don't buy there'-argument: so true. My sister went into a vintage camera store in my town once, looking for an old(er) Minolta body. She saw a nicely priced one standing in a glass case and asked if she could see it, saying she was interested in buying. The guy behind the counter said it was for sale, 'just not to her' (!).
The shop went out of business a few months later. Karma.
The shop went out of business a few months later. Karma.
R
ruben
Guest
NickTrop said:
As for shops that are not restaurants, when I am bluntly ignored, I start "touching" whatever I can, open whatever vitrina I can try.
But employees at photo stores, like at any other branch of anything, are not employed by their employers according to their knowledge on the matter, but according to their skill to sell.
This skill includes their capacity to answer every question with absolute self confidence, not matter what crazy answer they give.
Cheers,
Ruben
Welsh_Italian
Established
Charles Bogel said:
I'm not sure about your two examples, but Dick Feynman (2 Nobel prizes in Physics) was happy to chat to people about all types of subject.
javimm
Established
There's a big chain of stores in Spain called "El Corte Inglés". They started being a cloth store a long time ago and they are now the biggest business in Spain, selling about everything, computers, clothes, food (they have a BIG supermarket). They have HUGE stores all over Spain and make big money. They are more expensive than any store out there in Spain, but people keep buying there. Why?. Because the firm has a motiv since it started: "The customer is always right". I have a friend that works there and he says that this motiv is repeated over and over to them. I've seen customers abuse salesman there, which is sad, but they know that treating every customer with that motiv in their head will bring them there to buy everytime. And it works. It's inconceivable that any sales person there shows some kind of bad attitude to a customer. If the customers complain to the manager about a bad sales person attitude, the sales person gets fired instantly. Guess what?. Being as overpriced at it is, people buy there, and they keep growing and growing.
I'm not going to buy at a shop that shows just a little disrespect for me. If they want my money, they better treat me with respect, just as I treat a salesman with respect. I'm never an asshole to a salesman, so I expect the same respect to me.
Anyway, I don't understand the "people that never buy anything" thing. How many Noctiluxes do you buy on a daily basis?. When buying such expensive things, you do it only once. They don't know if you are the one that is going to buy a MP with a Summilux.
I'm not going to buy at a shop that shows just a little disrespect for me. If they want my money, they better treat me with respect, just as I treat a salesman with respect. I'm never an asshole to a salesman, so I expect the same respect to me.
Anyway, I don't understand the "people that never buy anything" thing. How many Noctiluxes do you buy on a daily basis?. When buying such expensive things, you do it only once. They don't know if you are the one that is going to buy a MP with a Summilux.
nico
Well-known
Emile de Leon said:
Hello Emile,
I see your point and in some way I can agree but on the line quoted above I have to - kindly- disagree because in the free market is the shop that has to support his costumers, not viceversa.
Ciao
Sonnar2
Well-known
Charles Bogel said:
Most, if not all successfull genial people are trained to be very patient with any discussion counterparts, because they are used discussing with ignorami or idiots.
These who are not patient usually just pretend to be Einsteins.
georgef
Well-known
I think at the end of all of this, we are talking about the service industry. Some people are good at it, some are not. Some like what they do and it shows; some do not and it also shows. Everyone has good and bad days, we cant hold that against them; we just can't take our troubles on the people we work with in any working environment.
Maybe good salesmanship has a lot to do with patience and courtesy as well. And that goes both ways: sales person and buyer.
Maybe good salesmanship has a lot to do with patience and courtesy as well. And that goes both ways: sales person and buyer.
dee
Well-known
I have dificulty with people anyway , and was snubbed in that British Museum location store .
However I have found patient and enthusiastic Leica dealers , who don't scoff at Zorki/Feds too .
i would not give up - be selective .
dee
However I have found patient and enthusiastic Leica dealers , who don't scoff at Zorki/Feds too .
i would not give up - be selective .
dee
Sonnar2
Well-known
Buying a brand-new car or a camera that costs x-thousand EUR, confidence is important. My attitude is that I don't become confident just from seeing a large hall, golden vitrinas, expensive stuff, and well dressed salespersons, but how they treat me when I walk in casually dressed, friendly talking, but showing no special interest in expensive gear.
Even an expensive car or camera can break in the warrantee time when a good service attitude is most important. If they showing bad attitude even when selling cheap stuff I won't picture their attitude when I want something from them free of charge.
Even an expensive car or camera can break in the warrantee time when a good service attitude is most important. If they showing bad attitude even when selling cheap stuff I won't picture their attitude when I want something from them free of charge.
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Emile de Leon
Well-known
Hi Nico,
Actually I should change the line you mentioned...It should read... "if you have a camera store in your area... that you want to stay in business for a bit longer.... support them as this will temporarily halt but not stop the enevitable death of the mom and pop retail brick and morter film camera business". This will probably come to pass for most small camera retailers in the next few years as a result of the digital influx if it hasn't already.
Every customer is different as is every salesman. My wife is good by selling on "Cute Appeal" I'm better at being the "Nice Guy" or the "Hard Ass" . You would be surprised on how many more sales the "Hard Ass" gets over the "Nice Guy". But I'm in the "Gift and Service business" not the camera business except ULF as a side business... www.deleon-ulf.com. I will say that service counts and is very important... but to most customers... they will unduly travel halfway around the world and give up their most of their left arm to save .50 cents... and many really don't give a rats ass about anything but saving a few pennies....hence the immence popularity of the internet which is doing so well while the service oriented mom and pop camera shops are dropping like flies.
As to the chain stores of ass kissing salesman in Spain...they seem to know their market well...well to do people... inevitably very loney and need to be paid attention to and be right all the time even when some are comlete jerks... and... who gets fired for a just reaction?... the sales man for telling the truth...Personally I would rather have a real person sell something to me not a phoney monkey or something similar, even if they are in a bad mood.
Actually I should change the line you mentioned...It should read... "if you have a camera store in your area... that you want to stay in business for a bit longer.... support them as this will temporarily halt but not stop the enevitable death of the mom and pop retail brick and morter film camera business". This will probably come to pass for most small camera retailers in the next few years as a result of the digital influx if it hasn't already.
Every customer is different as is every salesman. My wife is good by selling on "Cute Appeal" I'm better at being the "Nice Guy" or the "Hard Ass" . You would be surprised on how many more sales the "Hard Ass" gets over the "Nice Guy". But I'm in the "Gift and Service business" not the camera business except ULF as a side business... www.deleon-ulf.com. I will say that service counts and is very important... but to most customers... they will unduly travel halfway around the world and give up their most of their left arm to save .50 cents... and many really don't give a rats ass about anything but saving a few pennies....hence the immence popularity of the internet which is doing so well while the service oriented mom and pop camera shops are dropping like flies.
As to the chain stores of ass kissing salesman in Spain...they seem to know their market well...well to do people... inevitably very loney and need to be paid attention to and be right all the time even when some are comlete jerks... and... who gets fired for a just reaction?... the sales man for telling the truth...Personally I would rather have a real person sell something to me not a phoney monkey or something similar, even if they are in a bad mood.
noci
Established
by the way, as "end of story", I instead purchased a vintage nikkor 50/1.4 from a fellow RFF member. I probably wouldn't have found that deal if I had stuck to leica, so I'd have to thank them for their rudeness
kully
Happy Snapper
John Robertson said:
Me too.
I came into London special with my bonus money ...
... Walked out feeling belittled. The money went to Robert White the next day.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
What an odd thread: everyone blaming everyone else. How about the following summary:
1 Some people are arrogant arseholes. This can include both buyers and sellers.
2 We all have bad days and good days. This can again include both buyers and sellers.
3 We all make snap judgements, though some of us are smart enough to hold off for longer than others before deciding we're right (because sometimes we're wrong).
4 We'll sometimes put up with things that annoy us, in order to get something we want, especially if it's rare or a bargain: if an arsehole wants to sell me a IIId for $50, I'll led him be an arsehole for quite a long time.
5 If we can get something elsewhere, at a reasonable price, we won't put up with arseholes.
6 Some people are indeed pathologically mean and will travel miles and waste days to save trivial amounts of money, and some others will cut off their noses to spite their faces, despite the way that most people feel about (4) above.
Cheers,
Roger
1 Some people are arrogant arseholes. This can include both buyers and sellers.
2 We all have bad days and good days. This can again include both buyers and sellers.
3 We all make snap judgements, though some of us are smart enough to hold off for longer than others before deciding we're right (because sometimes we're wrong).
4 We'll sometimes put up with things that annoy us, in order to get something we want, especially if it's rare or a bargain: if an arsehole wants to sell me a IIId for $50, I'll led him be an arsehole for quite a long time.
5 If we can get something elsewhere, at a reasonable price, we won't put up with arseholes.
6 Some people are indeed pathologically mean and will travel miles and waste days to save trivial amounts of money, and some others will cut off their noses to spite their faces, despite the way that most people feel about (4) above.
Cheers,
Roger