my Leica Store Berlin experience - snobbism at its best

Yup, you nailed it. I'm a failed photographer. Couldn't take a pitcher or get one published to save my life. Thank God for online psychoanalysts. Woe is me.

I'm subservient to that huge class of people who know what they're doing, while I can only diddle around with bits of scratched glass and bent metal.

Mohan said:
Like a said before displaying that kind of snobbery just makes you look incredibly insecure and un-classy.

In my opinion I think a large part of the attitude displayed by this type of person comes from the fact that many of these people are failed/untalented Photographers and have to settle on being gearheads, and are uncomfortable being subservient to photographers rather than their preferred customer base of rich fellow collectors or armchair photographer types.
Click to expand...
 
Charles Bogel said:
Like I said, some people sell for pleasure. They want the mental stimulation of dealing with people who mentally challenge them and the type of people they want to interact with.
Click to expand...

ROFLMAO !!
 
Charles Bogel said:
There are deadbeats, doofuses and time-wasters. Then, there are many who are not.

There are people who will NEVER buy anything, even if hell freezes over, but will waste as much time as you are willing to allocate to them.

An ability to distinguish between the two can be a valuable business asset.

If you want to be a nice guy to the exclusion of everything else, then you can sing "kumbaya", play guitar, and ignore certain realities of human nature.
Click to expand...

"We dont see the world the way it is, we see it the way we are..."

I will actually vote for moogman on this one: " Be humble, and you will earn respect, if not, at least you have your good "karma" intact!"

Life is good! Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.
 
georgef said:
Life is good! Anyone who tells you otherwise is trying to sell you something.
Click to expand...

advertising is based on selling "the good life". they say "life is good" all the time.
 
Bottom line is that people either on the sales/retail side or the customer/client side can have their individual moods and proclivities. These can change from day to day or from hour to hour. From the retail/sales side-view there are plenty of well meaning people that have no intention of buying anything but every intention of holding the salesclerk captive for their social entertainment or hobby needs. Just browsing....from the customer's side they might be needing some attention for a future purchase and this is a touchy balance for the retail sales person to acess. I have been on both sides of the fence here. One particular camera store in Hartford lost thousands in business from me because of a persistant snobby attitude. So everyone needs to see clearly, the salesperson has to remain zenlike in their initial approach to the customer but if this person turns out to be a drain then they need to be handled appropriately. The customer has to realize it is extremely difficult to run and maintain a brick and morter retail shop in the current economic environment with the internet and all and that in the camera business for every 50 to 100 inquiries there are only one or two major sales, this eventually leads to frustration and incredible time loss for the store. The retail shop personel need to be able to keep a positive attitude and just have fun as this will lead to better relations and more sales. The customer needs to realize and thank their lucky stars that anyone in their right mind would open and run a camera shop or any other kind of specialized retail store these days in their town (more and more camera shops are going out of business as we speak...why...the internet.... customers fondle the retail shop wares and then order cheaper online.) I think the statistics are that more than 90% of stores fail within the first 5 years of business. So if you have a retail store that you wish to stay in business in your area...support them or they wont be there long. I have owned my own retail shop for 14 years now...I've seen great customers and crappy ones. I've seen rich people try to grind me down for 1 nickle and steal from the shop when they think I'm not looking, I've seen a bum spend 30 grand in 4 weeks with me. It is the storekeepers job to sell and inform.... it is the customers job to buy and try to understand how hard it is to run a business today and not waste the storeowners time for ther own entertainment.
 
About the 'don't buy there'-argument: so true. My sister went into a vintage camera store in my town once, looking for an old(er) Minolta body. She saw a nicely priced one standing in a glass case and asked if she could see it, saying she was interested in buying. The guy behind the counter said it was for sale, 'just not to her' (!).

The shop went out of business a few months later. Karma.
 
NickTrop said:
..............After being treated like we "weren't good enough", my friends then GF laughed and said, "Ya know what? He's a waiter. Our very own little table monkey working for tips". Yo, get me more water. And don't make me wait like you did last time. This forks has a spot on it. Get me another one and make sure it isn't filthy this time. She treated this guy like he was behind the counter at a McDonalds. Once the "facade" was destroyed that he is what he is - only a "waiter" no better than the lady down the road at the diner slinging hash at the $2.99 breakfast special place, he underwent a major "attitude adjustment"...

Know what? She was spot-on.

......
Click to expand...


As for shops that are not restaurants, when I am bluntly ignored, I start "touching" whatever I can, open whatever vitrina I can try.

But employees at photo stores, like at any other branch of anything, are not employed by their employers according to their knowledge on the matter, but according to their skill to sell.

This skill includes their capacity to answer every question with absolute self confidence, not matter what crazy answer they give.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Charles Bogel said:
Maybe they ARE better than you, and don't want to deal with the hoi-polloi.

If you were Albert Einstein or Oppenheimer, would you want to deal with idiotic physics questions from neophytes or ignoramuses all day?

Like I said, some people sell for pleasure. They want the mental stimulation of dealing with people who mentally challenge them and the type of people they want to interact with.

If that doesn't include YOU (in the broad sense of the word), there's nothing worse than an embittered, befuddled dork who feels rejected.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about your two examples, but Dick Feynman (2 Nobel prizes in Physics) was happy to chat to people about all types of subject.
 
There's a big chain of stores in Spain called "El Corte Inglés". They started being a cloth store a long time ago and they are now the biggest business in Spain, selling about everything, computers, clothes, food (they have a BIG supermarket). They have HUGE stores all over Spain and make big money. They are more expensive than any store out there in Spain, but people keep buying there. Why?. Because the firm has a motiv since it started: "The customer is always right". I have a friend that works there and he says that this motiv is repeated over and over to them. I've seen customers abuse salesman there, which is sad, but they know that treating every customer with that motiv in their head will bring them there to buy everytime. And it works. It's inconceivable that any sales person there shows some kind of bad attitude to a customer. If the customers complain to the manager about a bad sales person attitude, the sales person gets fired instantly. Guess what?. Being as overpriced at it is, people buy there, and they keep growing and growing.

I'm not going to buy at a shop that shows just a little disrespect for me. If they want my money, they better treat me with respect, just as I treat a salesman with respect. I'm never an asshole to a salesman, so I expect the same respect to me.

Anyway, I don't understand the "people that never buy anything" thing. How many Noctiluxes do you buy on a daily basis?. When buying such expensive things, you do it only once. They don't know if you are the one that is going to buy a MP with a Summilux.
 
Emile de Leon said:
... So if you have a retail store that you wish to stay in business in your area...support them or they wont be there long....
Click to expand...

Hello Emile,
I see your point and in some way I can agree but on the line quoted above I have to - kindly- disagree because in the free market is the shop that has to support his costumers, not viceversa.
Ciao 🙂
 
Charles Bogel said:
If you were Albert Einstein or Oppenheimer, would you want to deal with idiotic physics questions from neophytes or ignoramuses all day?
Click to expand...

Most, if not all successfull genial people are trained to be very patient with any discussion counterparts, because they are used discussing with ignorami or idiots.

These who are not patient usually just pretend to be Einsteins.
 
I think at the end of all of this, we are talking about the service industry. Some people are good at it, some are not. Some like what they do and it shows; some do not and it also shows. Everyone has good and bad days, we cant hold that against them; we just can't take our troubles on the people we work with in any working environment.
Maybe good salesmanship has a lot to do with patience and courtesy as well. And that goes both ways: sales person and buyer.
 
I have dificulty with people anyway , and was snubbed in that British Museum location store .
However I have found patient and enthusiastic Leica dealers , who don't scoff at Zorki/Feds too .
i would not give up - be selective .
dee
 
Buying a brand-new car or a camera that costs x-thousand EUR, confidence is important. My attitude is that I don't become confident just from seeing a large hall, golden vitrinas, expensive stuff, and well dressed salespersons, but how they treat me when I walk in casually dressed, friendly talking, but showing no special interest in expensive gear.
Even an expensive car or camera can break in the warrantee time when a good service attitude is most important. If they showing bad attitude even when selling cheap stuff I won't picture their attitude when I want something from them free of charge.
 
Last edited:
Hi Nico,
Actually I should change the line you mentioned...It should read... "if you have a camera store in your area... that you want to stay in business for a bit longer.... support them as this will temporarily halt but not stop the enevitable death of the mom and pop retail brick and morter film camera business". This will probably come to pass for most small camera retailers in the next few years as a result of the digital influx if it hasn't already.
Every customer is different as is every salesman. My wife is good by selling on "Cute Appeal" I'm better at being the "Nice Guy" or the "Hard Ass" . You would be surprised on how many more sales the "Hard Ass" gets over the "Nice Guy". But I'm in the "Gift and Service business" not the camera business except ULF as a side business... www.deleon-ulf.com. I will say that service counts and is very important... but to most customers... they will unduly travel halfway around the world and give up their most of their left arm to save .50 cents... and many really don't give a rats ass about anything but saving a few pennies....hence the immence popularity of the internet which is doing so well while the service oriented mom and pop camera shops are dropping like flies.
As to the chain stores of ass kissing salesman in Spain...they seem to know their market well...well to do people... inevitably very loney and need to be paid attention to and be right all the time even when some are comlete jerks... and... who gets fired for a just reaction?... the sales man for telling the truth...Personally I would rather have a real person sell something to me not a phoney monkey or something similar, even if they are in a bad mood.
 
by the way, as "end of story", I instead purchased a vintage nikkor 50/1.4 from a fellow RFF member. I probably wouldn't have found that deal if I had stuck to leica, so I'd have to thank them for their rudeness 🙂
 
John Robertson said:
I've had the same treatment in London at a well known store near the British Museum, that was back in 2002, havn't been and won't go back. They even sold Voigtlanders!!! with that attitude God knows why. Perhaps I got the guy on an "off" day, but the damage is done as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

Me too.

I came into London special with my bonus money ...

... Walked out feeling belittled. The money went to Robert White the next day.
 
What an odd thread: everyone blaming everyone else. How about the following summary:

1 Some people are arrogant arseholes. This can include both buyers and sellers.

2 We all have bad days and good days. This can again include both buyers and sellers.

3 We all make snap judgements, though some of us are smart enough to hold off for longer than others before deciding we're right (because sometimes we're wrong).

4 We'll sometimes put up with things that annoy us, in order to get something we want, especially if it's rare or a bargain: if an arsehole wants to sell me a IIId for $50, I'll led him be an arsehole for quite a long time.

5 If we can get something elsewhere, at a reasonable price, we won't put up with arseholes.

6 Some people are indeed pathologically mean and will travel miles and waste days to save trivial amounts of money, and some others will cut off their noses to spite their faces, despite the way that most people feel about (4) above.

Cheers,

Roger
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom