papasnap
Well-known
hola all, yesterday I recieved my brand new black zeiss ikon and new black voigtlander nokton 35mm f1.2. I'll share some of my thoughts and experiences, hopefully they may be of use/interest to someone. As it's my first proper rangefinder (an old Yashica GSN with a cloudy RF notwithstanding), some of my observations will be on rangefinders generally, and some on the ikon specifically. Sorry if this is excessively long, but I know I always want to read as much as I possibly can about others experiences and recommendations before I buy something, so I'll be as detailed as possible.
QUICK SUMMARY
I've come to very much enjoy and respect both the ikon and the nokton, they've raised quite a few challenges and issues but overall i've found the combo extremely rewarding and engaging in the short time I've had it. I think they are going to be a real asset in acheiving the kind of photography I aim to do.
BACKGROUND
I ordered the ikon from matsuiyastore in japan (http://stores.ebay.com/Matsuiyastore) and the nokton from chiif cameras in singapore (http://www.chiifcameras.com/). Both sellers were a pleasure to deal with, and I wouldn't hesitate to deal with either of them again. I live in sydney, australia and having ordered the items on last sunday, the nokton arrived on thursday and the ikon on friday.
my path to the ikon started when I read about the nokton. I shoot mostly late at night in very poor light, and in general I really dislike flash almost all of the time. When I was using my nikon DSLR (a D70s with sigma 30mm f1.4 = 45mm with the 1.5 sensor crop), I always wanted better low light capabilities and a slightly wider FOV. When I was using my Hexar AF (which I utterly loved, despite some acknowledged limitations), I would have liked a faster lens and better manual control of exposure (all it would really need would be a dedicated exposure lock button for use in AE or P modes).
Once I read about the 35mm nokton f1.2 it was clear this was the lens for me, so then I went about picking the right body to best use it. It was down to either a Leica M6 TTL (.58 or .72) or the zeiss, and I went with the zeiss for the longer rangefinder base, apperture priority mode, larger and apparently more eyeglass-friendly viewfinder, display of actual shutter speed in finder, arguably easier film loading, and the fact I can buy a brand new ZI for the same or less price than a used M6 TTL. In nearly every category I was assessing bodies in, the zeiss rated highest for me. I considered the Hexar RF as well, but discounted it as like the .58x M6 I was concerned about it's ability to focus very fast lenses (f1.2 or faster) accurately.
I've been set on the ikon and nokton for a long time, and with an impending 4 month trip to thailand, now was the time to finally get it. I'm leaving in late april, so I've got some time to get used to the system before I go.
Please keep in mind I've only had the ikon + nokton for around 24 hours, so my experience with it is still very limited. I'm 34 shots into the first roll (Provia 400X pushed one stop to 800), and haven't seen any developed results yet. On the plus side, I really put it through it's paces during this time, in particular at a hectic house party, so I've gotten a feel for it's handling and usage in difficult situations.
CHALLENGES AND ISSUES (NEGATIVES)
1. When working quickly, and particularly in poor light, I find it a challenge to keep my eye centered over the viewfinder. It happens especially when shooting with the camera vertical instead of horizontal. Due to the design of the Ikon RF, you need to keep your eye closely centred or the RF patch dissapears and you can't use it to focus. I think that this is something that will improve with time and experience.
2. I'm still not completely sure that my rangefinder is aligned, although a quick check at infinity focus seems to indicate things are on target. I'm new to rangefinders so it's hard for me to say, and I've heard that the ZI can often appear out of alignment but actually be working fine. Yesterday I ran into a acquantance/friend who's also an RFF member, and he looked through the finder and almost immediately said that the RF was out of alignment, but then checked again more carefully and wasn't so sure. When helping break up a fight at the party last night (it was pretty hectic), the ikon apparently got dropped or swung very hard into the floor or wall, which severly bent/dented the lovely LH-3 vented hood for the nokton. Hopefully that didn't mess with the alignment, I guess I'll soon see.
3. The entire RF patch has a very minor but still noticible upwards diagonal angle (just a couple of degrees off horizontal) compared to the framelines - it's like someone twisted it upwards just a little. It won't bother me in the slightest, as long as it's doesn't cause any focus innacuracy.
4. When looking through the finder while wearing glasses, I find I can't keep both the RF patch centred/visible and read the LED meter readout (on the left of the finder) at the same time. It's not a problem when I'm not wearing glasses. In time I think I'll get better at the quick shuffle repositioning my eye from one to the other, without losing my centring on the RF (see issue 1). In the mean time, i've found that when shooting very rapidly, I tend to simply have to trust the AE has the right value.
5. I'm still getting used to focusing with a rangefinder. In particular, I struggled a lot in tracking someone standing right next to me (about arms length away, near minimum focus) who is talking rapidly and moving their head around a lot in animated conversation - I found I had to wait for the moment when the person finishes what they are saying and pauses to listen to the other person, at which point they (generally) stop moving for a second or two. I'll get better in time but I think this situation is always going to be a struggle with an RF when working wide open with shallow DOF. Situations like that were a complete non-issue with the Hexar AF, with it's very quick and positive active IR focusing.
phew! Ok, that's it on negatives for now. I can't comment on the metering just yet. I plan to update this post/thread next weekend, once I've got some results back and looked at the slides under the loupe.
POSITIVES AND GENERAL COMMENTS
1. With all the fancy glass densely packed inside it, the nokton is suprisingly heavy ( in a pleasing way) for it's compact size, weighing in at about half a kilo. The build quality seems absolutely solid, and gives a sense of quality I haven't felt since trying out the big zeiss primes for my father's contax 645 system. By the way, I say compact relative to the SLR world. It's the same width but about 30 - 40% longer than my little Nikkor 50mm F1.8 AF lens, and the same length but about 40% thinner than my Sigma 30mm F1.4 AF lens (and that's not even full frame). If I hollowed out my Nikkor 18-70mm AFS zoom, I could easily fit the nokton inside it. Overall, the size of the ikon + nokton seems to be about the same (from memory) as say an old pentax spotmatic with 50mm prime lens. When the nokton is mounted on the ikon, the two together have a pleasing heft and feeling of solidity. Compared to the luxurious weight of an old leica M3 (which I've only held briefly), I think I find the weight of the ikon to be more practical.
2. This one matters a lot to me - when wearing the ikon + nokton with the standard zeiss shoulder strap, the camera sits on my body very easily and comfortably, flat against my torso. This means that I can comfortably wear the camera for extended periods without any annoyance, which in turn means I'm much more likely to have it out and ready to go when I need it at zero notice. In fact as I sit here writing this, I've got the pair over one shoulder and under the other, sitting on my stomache comfortably. This is in stark contrast to my Nikon D70S, especially when it's got the 30mm f1.4 prime on it.
3. It's a small point, but the standard shoulder strap for the ikon has a wonderfully grippy rubberised shoulder pad, that means that most of the time the camera remains sitting against your body at whatever position you left it at. This means that I can eg ride a bike while wearing it, or keep it high and close, ready to take a shot quickly. It'll be a shame to loose this if/when I get a leather half case with leather strap.
4. The Ikon and the Nokton are both a joy to look at and to hold. Neither has an especially aesthetically pleasing design, but they both look very understated, clean and functional to my eye. The black finish is very practical and handsome on both. The nokton is wonderfully tactile, and the ikon isn't far behind it. I'm planning on getting a leather half case (likely from luigi) to make holding the ikon even more comfortable, although it would be a shame to lose the sure grip you can get on the ikons rubberised body.
5. The viewfinder on the ikon is, as expected, wonderfully large and clear. The only downside to this is that it's a long way for your eye to travel from the RF patch to the metering readout, I do wish they'd put the meter readout inside the 35mm frame instead of the 28mm frame, but it's not a showstopper issue. The overall experience is definately pleasant.
6. The shutter sound is of course louder than my old virtually silent Hexar AF, but it's still very mild. It also has a reassuring sound and feel to it. I really don't think it's ever going to be a problem for me in practical use.
7. The overall ergonomics and usability of the camera rates as very intuitive and very positive. I think I'll get to grips with it very quickly and find it practical and rewarding for many many years to come. Other photographer friends/family who handle the combo are immediately impressed and get a wisftul look in their eyes.
8. Although I find the nokton extremely managable in size, I think I'll follow it up in a few months with either a voigtlander 35 f2.5 pancake II or the new 35 f1.4 nokton, or maybe even the Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2 for daytime and casual use. I don't regret getting the nokton f1.2 at all, as for my most important work there's no better substitute for it in any lens mount (canon, nikon, leica, etc).
9. The combo fits very well into my little black Domke F803 satchel, and makes for a fantastic system I can carry with me everywhere.
10. Just FYI, my next lens purchase will be a 25mm, either the zeiss or the voightlander.
Well - that's it for now. I'll have more observations to make once I've got some concrete results back. I really, really hope the alignment is correct! But even if it's not, and I have to send it back, in this short time the system has made such a positive impression on me that I'll happily wait and get it right.
If you have any questions, please let me know - keep in mind i'm likely to be slow to reply, as I'm very busy throughout the week.
Cheers!
Tom
QUICK SUMMARY
I've come to very much enjoy and respect both the ikon and the nokton, they've raised quite a few challenges and issues but overall i've found the combo extremely rewarding and engaging in the short time I've had it. I think they are going to be a real asset in acheiving the kind of photography I aim to do.
BACKGROUND
I ordered the ikon from matsuiyastore in japan (http://stores.ebay.com/Matsuiyastore) and the nokton from chiif cameras in singapore (http://www.chiifcameras.com/). Both sellers were a pleasure to deal with, and I wouldn't hesitate to deal with either of them again. I live in sydney, australia and having ordered the items on last sunday, the nokton arrived on thursday and the ikon on friday.
my path to the ikon started when I read about the nokton. I shoot mostly late at night in very poor light, and in general I really dislike flash almost all of the time. When I was using my nikon DSLR (a D70s with sigma 30mm f1.4 = 45mm with the 1.5 sensor crop), I always wanted better low light capabilities and a slightly wider FOV. When I was using my Hexar AF (which I utterly loved, despite some acknowledged limitations), I would have liked a faster lens and better manual control of exposure (all it would really need would be a dedicated exposure lock button for use in AE or P modes).
Once I read about the 35mm nokton f1.2 it was clear this was the lens for me, so then I went about picking the right body to best use it. It was down to either a Leica M6 TTL (.58 or .72) or the zeiss, and I went with the zeiss for the longer rangefinder base, apperture priority mode, larger and apparently more eyeglass-friendly viewfinder, display of actual shutter speed in finder, arguably easier film loading, and the fact I can buy a brand new ZI for the same or less price than a used M6 TTL. In nearly every category I was assessing bodies in, the zeiss rated highest for me. I considered the Hexar RF as well, but discounted it as like the .58x M6 I was concerned about it's ability to focus very fast lenses (f1.2 or faster) accurately.
I've been set on the ikon and nokton for a long time, and with an impending 4 month trip to thailand, now was the time to finally get it. I'm leaving in late april, so I've got some time to get used to the system before I go.
Please keep in mind I've only had the ikon + nokton for around 24 hours, so my experience with it is still very limited. I'm 34 shots into the first roll (Provia 400X pushed one stop to 800), and haven't seen any developed results yet. On the plus side, I really put it through it's paces during this time, in particular at a hectic house party, so I've gotten a feel for it's handling and usage in difficult situations.
CHALLENGES AND ISSUES (NEGATIVES)
1. When working quickly, and particularly in poor light, I find it a challenge to keep my eye centered over the viewfinder. It happens especially when shooting with the camera vertical instead of horizontal. Due to the design of the Ikon RF, you need to keep your eye closely centred or the RF patch dissapears and you can't use it to focus. I think that this is something that will improve with time and experience.
2. I'm still not completely sure that my rangefinder is aligned, although a quick check at infinity focus seems to indicate things are on target. I'm new to rangefinders so it's hard for me to say, and I've heard that the ZI can often appear out of alignment but actually be working fine. Yesterday I ran into a acquantance/friend who's also an RFF member, and he looked through the finder and almost immediately said that the RF was out of alignment, but then checked again more carefully and wasn't so sure. When helping break up a fight at the party last night (it was pretty hectic), the ikon apparently got dropped or swung very hard into the floor or wall, which severly bent/dented the lovely LH-3 vented hood for the nokton. Hopefully that didn't mess with the alignment, I guess I'll soon see.
3. The entire RF patch has a very minor but still noticible upwards diagonal angle (just a couple of degrees off horizontal) compared to the framelines - it's like someone twisted it upwards just a little. It won't bother me in the slightest, as long as it's doesn't cause any focus innacuracy.
4. When looking through the finder while wearing glasses, I find I can't keep both the RF patch centred/visible and read the LED meter readout (on the left of the finder) at the same time. It's not a problem when I'm not wearing glasses. In time I think I'll get better at the quick shuffle repositioning my eye from one to the other, without losing my centring on the RF (see issue 1). In the mean time, i've found that when shooting very rapidly, I tend to simply have to trust the AE has the right value.
5. I'm still getting used to focusing with a rangefinder. In particular, I struggled a lot in tracking someone standing right next to me (about arms length away, near minimum focus) who is talking rapidly and moving their head around a lot in animated conversation - I found I had to wait for the moment when the person finishes what they are saying and pauses to listen to the other person, at which point they (generally) stop moving for a second or two. I'll get better in time but I think this situation is always going to be a struggle with an RF when working wide open with shallow DOF. Situations like that were a complete non-issue with the Hexar AF, with it's very quick and positive active IR focusing.
phew! Ok, that's it on negatives for now. I can't comment on the metering just yet. I plan to update this post/thread next weekend, once I've got some results back and looked at the slides under the loupe.
POSITIVES AND GENERAL COMMENTS
1. With all the fancy glass densely packed inside it, the nokton is suprisingly heavy ( in a pleasing way) for it's compact size, weighing in at about half a kilo. The build quality seems absolutely solid, and gives a sense of quality I haven't felt since trying out the big zeiss primes for my father's contax 645 system. By the way, I say compact relative to the SLR world. It's the same width but about 30 - 40% longer than my little Nikkor 50mm F1.8 AF lens, and the same length but about 40% thinner than my Sigma 30mm F1.4 AF lens (and that's not even full frame). If I hollowed out my Nikkor 18-70mm AFS zoom, I could easily fit the nokton inside it. Overall, the size of the ikon + nokton seems to be about the same (from memory) as say an old pentax spotmatic with 50mm prime lens. When the nokton is mounted on the ikon, the two together have a pleasing heft and feeling of solidity. Compared to the luxurious weight of an old leica M3 (which I've only held briefly), I think I find the weight of the ikon to be more practical.
2. This one matters a lot to me - when wearing the ikon + nokton with the standard zeiss shoulder strap, the camera sits on my body very easily and comfortably, flat against my torso. This means that I can comfortably wear the camera for extended periods without any annoyance, which in turn means I'm much more likely to have it out and ready to go when I need it at zero notice. In fact as I sit here writing this, I've got the pair over one shoulder and under the other, sitting on my stomache comfortably. This is in stark contrast to my Nikon D70S, especially when it's got the 30mm f1.4 prime on it.
3. It's a small point, but the standard shoulder strap for the ikon has a wonderfully grippy rubberised shoulder pad, that means that most of the time the camera remains sitting against your body at whatever position you left it at. This means that I can eg ride a bike while wearing it, or keep it high and close, ready to take a shot quickly. It'll be a shame to loose this if/when I get a leather half case with leather strap.
4. The Ikon and the Nokton are both a joy to look at and to hold. Neither has an especially aesthetically pleasing design, but they both look very understated, clean and functional to my eye. The black finish is very practical and handsome on both. The nokton is wonderfully tactile, and the ikon isn't far behind it. I'm planning on getting a leather half case (likely from luigi) to make holding the ikon even more comfortable, although it would be a shame to lose the sure grip you can get on the ikons rubberised body.
5. The viewfinder on the ikon is, as expected, wonderfully large and clear. The only downside to this is that it's a long way for your eye to travel from the RF patch to the metering readout, I do wish they'd put the meter readout inside the 35mm frame instead of the 28mm frame, but it's not a showstopper issue. The overall experience is definately pleasant.
6. The shutter sound is of course louder than my old virtually silent Hexar AF, but it's still very mild. It also has a reassuring sound and feel to it. I really don't think it's ever going to be a problem for me in practical use.
7. The overall ergonomics and usability of the camera rates as very intuitive and very positive. I think I'll get to grips with it very quickly and find it practical and rewarding for many many years to come. Other photographer friends/family who handle the combo are immediately impressed and get a wisftul look in their eyes.
8. Although I find the nokton extremely managable in size, I think I'll follow it up in a few months with either a voigtlander 35 f2.5 pancake II or the new 35 f1.4 nokton, or maybe even the Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2 for daytime and casual use. I don't regret getting the nokton f1.2 at all, as for my most important work there's no better substitute for it in any lens mount (canon, nikon, leica, etc).
9. The combo fits very well into my little black Domke F803 satchel, and makes for a fantastic system I can carry with me everywhere.
10. Just FYI, my next lens purchase will be a 25mm, either the zeiss or the voightlander.
Well - that's it for now. I'll have more observations to make once I've got some concrete results back. I really, really hope the alignment is correct! But even if it's not, and I have to send it back, in this short time the system has made such a positive impression on me that I'll happily wait and get it right.
If you have any questions, please let me know - keep in mind i'm likely to be slow to reply, as I'm very busy throughout the week.
Cheers!
Tom
