Kent
Finally at home...
That's right, Raid.
Only those Summitars that were built between 1946 and and 1949 offer the combination of lens coating and 10-blade-apertures.
The earlier models were uncoated and the later models had 6 blades.
But that does not mean that your copy is worse than mine! Not even for the creaminess of the bokeh does that mean anything! A 6-blade-aperture lens can have a creamier bokeh than a 10-blade-aperture. The shape of the aperture only shows in bokeh highlights. Both lenses show circular bokeh highlights when use wide open anyway.
What is more important than the number of blades is the coating. The Summitar is a "7 lens in 4 elements" design which means a lot of internal reflections and stray light which then can easily cause flare or contrast reduction. If you're not after such an effect (which you could find in Summar shots) the coating helps a lot to prevent it.
BTW, the difference between "single" and multi-coating is by no means as big as the difference between "single" and no coating!
Raid, have you tried the Summitar on your M6?
Only those Summitars that were built between 1946 and and 1949 offer the combination of lens coating and 10-blade-apertures.
The earlier models were uncoated and the later models had 6 blades.
But that does not mean that your copy is worse than mine! Not even for the creaminess of the bokeh does that mean anything! A 6-blade-aperture lens can have a creamier bokeh than a 10-blade-aperture. The shape of the aperture only shows in bokeh highlights. Both lenses show circular bokeh highlights when use wide open anyway.
What is more important than the number of blades is the coating. The Summitar is a "7 lens in 4 elements" design which means a lot of internal reflections and stray light which then can easily cause flare or contrast reduction. If you're not after such an effect (which you could find in Summar shots) the coating helps a lot to prevent it.
BTW, the difference between "single" and multi-coating is by no means as big as the difference between "single" and no coating!
Raid, have you tried the Summitar on your M6?
Austerby
Well-known
Thanks for the inspiration, its prompted a lot of research and I've been interested enough to order a refurbished NEX-3 and adaptor for myself! I have an M8 but don't really use it much, preferring mechanical Ms and film, but want to have something digital I can use for my set of lenses.
Thanks for the insight.
raid
Dad Photographer
Hello Kent,
I have used the Summitar with the M6, and it gives nice looking images. I should also use it with the EP-2. The Summitar is a very different lens from the Summar.
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
I got a 1949 version of this lens (coated, 10 blades, etc . . .) for a great price because someone had taken pliers to the aperture ring because it was stuck. A short visit to Steve's Camera later and it is a beauty (minus the plier marks on the aperture ring). Love those old 50s.
Kent
Finally at home...
No prob. Congrats to you decision. I'd like to hear how you like it, once you have tried it.
fotomeow
name under my name
Kent,
the pics of the plants turned out well, I have a Summitar as well, it is a 1940 uncoated version (cant remember if it has the flat blades or the rounder (?) blades), but does quite well rendering more a 3D pop. I found this lens does color well mainly in well-lit scenarios, an the B&W in any light.
How is the B&W rendition on your Nex3?, e.g, would you be able to post B&W conversions of the plant pics and post them?!
the pics of the plants turned out well, I have a Summitar as well, it is a 1940 uncoated version (cant remember if it has the flat blades or the rounder (?) blades), but does quite well rendering more a 3D pop. I found this lens does color well mainly in well-lit scenarios, an the B&W in any light.
How is the B&W rendition on your Nex3?, e.g, would you be able to post B&W conversions of the plant pics and post them?!
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Sparrow
Veteran
Kent
Finally at home...
Sure. And I will add some NEX b&w images directly out-of-cam.
But it's 10 to 11 p.m. here, so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
Kent
Finally at home...
OK, here they are... some more shots:
First the plant in b&w, converted with SiverEfex Pro:
Now the same subject in different variantions:
1. Standard colour, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
2. Standard b/w, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
3. High contrast b&w, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
4. Faded colour ("Retro"), out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
5. B&W, converted with SilverEfex Pro
And some "real" shots:
Flowers at f/2.0
Flowers at f/4.0 (stopped down by 2 stops)
My son (b&w, out of cam)
My daughter (colour, our of cam)
Yes, I shouldn't take pictures of them when they are chewing.
BTW, all shots in AWB setting! The difference in white balance is somewhat striking.
Perhaps the cam did not react fast enough to the quickly changing light (sunny with clouds). I will have to observe that ...
First the plant in b&w, converted with SiverEfex Pro:
Now the same subject in different variantions:
1. Standard colour, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
2. Standard b/w, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
3. High contrast b&w, out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
4. Faded colour ("Retro"), out of cam, only some vary basic pp (level, resharpen after resizing)
5. B&W, converted with SilverEfex Pro
And some "real" shots:
Flowers at f/2.0
Flowers at f/4.0 (stopped down by 2 stops)
My son (b&w, out of cam)
My daughter (colour, our of cam)
Yes, I shouldn't take pictures of them when they are chewing.
BTW, all shots in AWB setting! The difference in white balance is somewhat striking.
Perhaps the cam did not react fast enough to the quickly changing light (sunny with clouds). I will have to observe that ...
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Kent
Finally at home...
I have been informed that the images cannot be seen.
That's strange! I can see the images perfectly. They are hosted on my private webspace, so no restrictions apply.
???
That's strange! I can see the images perfectly. They are hosted on my private webspace, so no restrictions apply.
???
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Kent
Finally at home...
dogberryjr
[Pithy phrase]
I see 'em.
LeicaTom
Watch that step!
Well, the first 10 blade Summitar's 50mm's f2 to f12.5 came out in mid 1939, replacing the Summar lens, these were initially all "uncoated" lenses.
The FIRST Summitar's that were "coated" were specialized lenses for the German Air Force and Army during WW2 - these are well, pretty rare even I don't have one at the moment......
Postwar Summitar's of that time were 10 bladed lenses, "uncoated" which went on untill about August/December 1945, as the US Army were taking delivery of many lenses, you will find backlogged unissued 1939 and 1940 numbered lenses in Feet....but that's another story for another day, back to the coating, which normally started around January 1946.
(and some early lenses at that time also got factory "coating" when some GI's took the lenses back for service and requested they be upgraded).
Some of the 1946 issued lenses were of the old design of f2 to f12.5, but sometime in late 1946 or early 1947 the maximum aperture went to f16.
These 10 blade "coated" lenses went on till late 1949, then Leitz had a few lenses changes, the Summitar was one of them, they went to a Hex shaped 6 blade style, similar to the pre-war Summar, with shooiting characteristic's also very similar, these lenses were made from 1950 to ca. 1952 untill they were replaced by the f2 Summicron.
With these lenses the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I prefer the look and signature of the pre 1947 series one lenses, either "coated" or "uncoated" and some people like the 1950's version better, either way, it seems that everybody's liking them,because Summitar prices have all but almost doubled in the past 8 months!
Enjoy!
Tom
The FIRST Summitar's that were "coated" were specialized lenses for the German Air Force and Army during WW2 - these are well, pretty rare even I don't have one at the moment......
Postwar Summitar's of that time were 10 bladed lenses, "uncoated" which went on untill about August/December 1945, as the US Army were taking delivery of many lenses, you will find backlogged unissued 1939 and 1940 numbered lenses in Feet....but that's another story for another day, back to the coating, which normally started around January 1946.
(and some early lenses at that time also got factory "coating" when some GI's took the lenses back for service and requested they be upgraded).
Some of the 1946 issued lenses were of the old design of f2 to f12.5, but sometime in late 1946 or early 1947 the maximum aperture went to f16.
These 10 blade "coated" lenses went on till late 1949, then Leitz had a few lenses changes, the Summitar was one of them, they went to a Hex shaped 6 blade style, similar to the pre-war Summar, with shooiting characteristic's also very similar, these lenses were made from 1950 to ca. 1952 untill they were replaced by the f2 Summicron.
With these lenses the beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I prefer the look and signature of the pre 1947 series one lenses, either "coated" or "uncoated" and some people like the 1950's version better, either way, it seems that everybody's liking them,because Summitar prices have all but almost doubled in the past 8 months!
Enjoy!
Tom
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fotomeow
name under my name
Cool, thanks for the historical info Tom (and others from earlier in the thread)
Kent, thanks for converting pics to BW, and adding more pics.
I think the BW conversions on the plant pics is really good.
I can totally relate to the OOF swirlies in the (color) flower pic @ f2.
And the fotos of your kids turned out good as well: contrast, focus, OOF, subject, etc.
thanks for sharing
Kent, thanks for converting pics to BW, and adding more pics.
I think the BW conversions on the plant pics is really good.
I can totally relate to the OOF swirlies in the (color) flower pic @ f2.
And the fotos of your kids turned out good as well: contrast, focus, OOF, subject, etc.
thanks for sharing
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David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi Raid,
Go here:
http://www.summilux.net/numeros/
When the top window shows "Objective" (or similar as the page is in French but so what) you enter the SN in the lower box and click and get the year and (often) lens description.
The alternative to objective is French for body and does the same trick.
Regards, David
raid
Dad Photographer
Hello Kent,
I found a website with all serial numbers after I asked you this question. Thanks.
I may have 20+ RF 50mm lenses, so the Summitar is rarely used.
Nokton48
Veteran
Kent,
Those are great! Enjoy the Nex3.
I find my two Nex3's to be invaluable tools.
Those are great! Enjoy the Nex3.
I find my two Nex3's to be invaluable tools.
Kent
Finally at home...
Thanks.
It's not just that the images look fascinating, it's also that great feeling to use such an old lens (or all my vintage lenses) on a modern body. It's as if you put a modern engine into one of those beautiful old car bodies which they don't built any more.
It's not just that the images look fascinating, it's also that great feeling to use such an old lens (or all my vintage lenses) on a modern body. It's as if you put a modern engine into one of those beautiful old car bodies which they don't built any more.
Kent
Finally at home...
Got the "right" cam for this lens.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Well, I guess you must be feeling great as I know what it's like when you start marrying up the right parts to make an outfit as it would have been.
So congratulations and beware as you are on a long and slippery slope. But it does feel great, doesn't it?
Regards, David
Well, I guess you must be feeling great as I know what it's like when you start marrying up the right parts to make an outfit as it would have been.
So congratulations and beware as you are on a long and slippery slope. But it does feel great, doesn't it?
Regards, David