jody
Broke User
These pictures were taken with a Nazi olimpic lieca Russian fake. Don't know what the camera really is Fed or Zorki, Looks like my Zorki 2. I don't know which film I used because I took these 2 years ago and just got them developed last week and like a dumb___ I didn't write it down. I know it is Illford. They turn out very grainy but I like them anyway.
Attachments
Xmas
Veteran
Jody
Like pics - green glow of envy - the film type is normally in the rebates. Only really a problem if you load cassettes and forget to label...
Noel
Like pics - green glow of envy - the film type is normally in the rebates. Only really a problem if you load cassettes and forget to label...
Noel
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Nice photo's. I love the look of Nazi-fakes (or the fake nazi fakes) but unfortunately I could never buy one due to the whole swastika/fascism connection. The same way I wouldn't go around wearing a tshirt promoting the genocide in any nation, recent or historical.
Do you have photo's of which camera yours is?
Do you have photo's of which camera yours is?
jody
Broke User
Don't know what this is but you made me look at negative and its HP5 plus is this film normally so grainy?Xmas said:
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Yes, its known for its nice grainy quality (at least, thats why I use it when I do)
jody
Broke User
Ash said:
I hate to rain on your parade but you own several communist cameras. I believe that the Leica factory were probably Nazi collaborators as well. All that aside I understand how you feel but I believe that as a collector I try to collect all I can afford as far as Cameras go. Also lets not forget any of this worlds history, Nazis are still around and some are in power not to mention a Communist country called china who all in this forum probably have bought goods from. So if you want a Nazi fake buy one you already support a tolitarian regime. Picture to follow I have to take one.
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
jody said:
Indeed Jody, but the only reason to buy one would be the "glamour" of the swastika.
In my humble opinion that would make the purchaser at very best a - shall we say - "Very Foolish Fellow Indeed".
All the best, Ian
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Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
I was trying to avoid this kinda 'flame war' thing starting. I only meant what Jocko has managed to say quite concisely.jody said:
I own several FSU cameras due to budget, and build quality. Although they were built by communists, they do not advertise the government in power at the time.
I own a Leica because they are solid, high quality cameras, I own goods from China because of the guarantee the shop gives when purchased (not the glamour of a communist brand). I hope you understand that I wasn't attacking your choice in cameras, only the symbolism the logo's represent.
Regardless of the number of Nazi's working for Zeiss or Leitz, they did not have that as part of their public image. It's just a sad part of history the two coincide
I don't have a hammer and sickle or anything like that on my tshirt, and I don't wear a swastika on my arm. I never will.
lushd
Donald
jody said:
Hi Jody - the Leica company helped many Jews out of the 3rd Reich and saved many lives as a result, at some risk to themsleves. You can wear your Leica with pride!
JohnL
Very confused
I have read that before and during the war the Leitz firm did a lot to help Jews exit Germany. They have even been compared to Schindler. Not sure if it's true. I'd like to know.
JohnL
Very confused
Simultaneous posts
lushd
Donald
JohnL said:
Have a read of this:
The Leica Freedom Train.
The Leitz family, owners of the famous optical firm in Wetzlar were Protestants. The family supported one of the democratic political parties in Germany at the time the National Socialists gained control of the country and began their well documented punishment of their Jewish countrymen. With the increasing intrusion of the Nazi government into business and social life, Leitz quietly began assessing the effect of government policy on its staff and German dealers, many of who were Jewish. Leitz began a practice of buying back stock from affected dealers, reselling it to any who emigrated to America. From there they began 'hiring' people associated with the firm who were at grave risk. Each new employee was quickly trained to use and demonstrate the Leica. After training, Leitz applied for an exit permit to send the new 'employee' to America to assist in generating sales.
In America, the Leitz subsidiary worked hard to find jobs for these emigrants - some with little or no English skills. It was said that an editor of the Leica Magazine called every Leitz account in America to help place the new employees. It was also rumoured that Leitz paid full salary for three months and half salary for the next three months. In all, it is estimated some 300 or more people benefited from the program. To the German government, the program was transferring skilled salesmen to America to generate hard currency sales.
Also - search under Leica Freedom Train in Google. There's lots about this.
Screwy
All the gear no idea
http://nemeng.com/leica/005eb.shtml few links on there if its any help .
As for Swastika,s , loads in India , every temple seems to be adorned with them . The Swastika emblem is a lot older than the Nazi party . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Not that I condone the actions of certain groups in Germany during the second world war just wanted to point out that its just a symbol and that its peoples attitude to it that cause offence .
Paul
As for Swastika,s , loads in India , every temple seems to be adorned with them . The Swastika emblem is a lot older than the Nazi party . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Not that I condone the actions of certain groups in Germany during the second world war just wanted to point out that its just a symbol and that its peoples attitude to it that cause offence .
Paul
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Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Paul, from previous research I knew the swastika and SS symbols predate the alphabet. Germanic runes stretch back before 'civilisation' as such in our parts of the world, of course things are often remembered for the most recent usage - thanks to Goebbels (can't ever remember his name properly) I think it was, the whole of the runic alphabet has been tainted from the Nazi party's use for propaganda.
To be fair I would never have, for example, a Crucifix around my neck for the same reasoning, let us not forget the Crusades (all the deaths in the East, and anti-semitism stretching to modern day) - but it takes hundreds of years before the public is willing to forget such actions.
I wonder if in 50-100 years there will be products from Islamic countries that people openly make use of.
To be fair I would never have, for example, a Crucifix around my neck for the same reasoning, let us not forget the Crusades (all the deaths in the East, and anti-semitism stretching to modern day) - but it takes hundreds of years before the public is willing to forget such actions.
I wonder if in 50-100 years there will be products from Islamic countries that people openly make use of.
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jonasv
has no mustache
lushd said:
I've yet to see any historical evidence of these stories. Referring to google is laughable at best. Book written by a rabbi... 'Hmmm' is all I can say.
At any rate they could have saved a lot more lifes if they abandoned (destroyed) the leitz factories instead of smuggling a few jews out of the country...
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Jonas, how would that have helped anyone???
Jocko
Off With The Pixies
Screwy said:
Absolutely Paul, but those cameras are sold as Nazi kitsch. To be honest, I have no problem with artifacts from that era. They are obviously of genuine historical significance. My objection lies in the disneyfied Nazism of these fakes, which turn a world tragedy into a bad-boy plaything. Above all, there is the simple fact that these are Soviet cameras. In the final analysis the Nazi project was stopped by a wall of 27,000,000 dead Soviet citizens. "Ironic" does not even approach the horrible absurdity of these wretched gee-gaws.
All the best, Ian
jonasv
has no mustache
Ash said:
Ash, what exactly are you implying? I don't quite understand your point, could you elaborate?
Are you connecting the crusades with anti-semitism? Not that that would be completely wrong but I think anti-arabism is a far more important subject when talking about the crusades!
jonasv
has no mustache
Ash said:
Leica made gunsights, rangefinders and other optical tools for the german military, no? Technology extremely important for the German military. Another factory would have stepped in yes, but it would have cost time.
I'm not blaming Leitz for this, and I'm most certainly not telling anyone to feel guilty about owning a Leica, Volkswagen or what-not. But this whole picture of Leitz heroism is very one-sided to say the least.
markinlondon
Elmar user
I can remember a thread on here some time ago where people were giving their reactions to a FED which had been painted pink. My first thought at the time was "better pink paint than swastikas". Thanks, Ian for highlighting the barbaric appeal of these foul creations.