Need advice: Tri-X and Rodinal development

[papo]

I have developed film in the past and compared to the lab, they all look terrible.

Grain size and amount was crazy, images lack sharpness and contrast so i wonder, what could i possibly do to improve my developing? How do you develop this combo in order to get good results? I shot the Trix at 400 ISO (135 film).

My Setup:

Patterson tank (2 rolls)
Rodinal developer
Adofix fixer
Adoflo wetting agent
Ilfostop stopper

I hope this is not too vague of a description. Thanks!

 

[sreed2006]

Have you looked at the Massive Dev Chart? http://www.digitaltruth.com/devchart.php

Select the film and developer, then use the time and temperature given, and the results are pretty good.

 

[xayraa33]

I have developed film in the past and compared to the lab, they all look terrible.

Grain size and amount was crazy, images lack sharpness and contrast so i wonder, what could i possibly do to improve my developing? How do you develop this combo in order to get good results? I shot the Trix at 400 ISO (135 film).

My Setup:

Patterson tank (2 rolls)
Rodinal developer
Adofix fixer
Adoflo wetting agent
Ilfostop stopper

I hope this is not too vague of a description. Thanks!

Rodinal is not a good developer for Tri X unless you want grain in the style of Ralph Gibson.

Sulfited Rodinal might be better, our columnist Bill Pierce knows about this, as he wrote a Pop Photo article about it 40 years ago.

There are much better developers for that film for less grain including the classic D 76 at 1:1

 

[leicapixie]

The Massive Dev. Chart gets you closer!
Rodinal is a high acutance/sharp developer so grain is there in buckets.
Scanners see grain, dust, hairs, dirt and any flaw not images.
The less Rodinal, higher dilutions more grain.
Use 1:50/1:75 and 1:25.Check which is recommended.
HP5+ does not like some dilutions..
Overexposure is bad, over agitation is bad and very precise focusing reqd. in shooting.
The better the lenses, technique and Rodinal shines.
I prefer HC-110, since Rodinal was changed slightly, when re-introduced.
I have Rodinal ready for a shoot in my Pentax with Takumar lenses for grain!

 

[Timmyjoe]

I find Rodinal with Tri-X to be a bit grainy and a bit higher contrast than I usually like, both things that are emphasized in scanning. But it does give sharp negatives, probably in part because of the grain and higher contrast.

Lately I've found HC-110 in high dilutions (64:1) gives me more of what I'm looking for.

Best,
-Tim

 

[papo]

Okok, does anyone know how often and when to agitate with this combo? Thanks

 

[x-ray]

Rodinal is not a good developer for Tri X unless you want grain in the style of Ralph Gibson.

Sulfited Rodinal might be better, our columnist Bill Pierce knows about this, as he wrote a Pop Photo article about it 40 years ago.

There are much better developers for that film for less grain including the classic D 76 at 1:1

In the late 60's until I stopped using TX in the 90's I modified Rodinal with Sodium Sulfite. I used 100gm of Sodium Sulfite per Liter of water at 68f. It's important to add the sulfite to the water before mixing in the Rodinal. Adding Sulfite to water is exothermic meaning heat is released so you might need to cool the water / Sulfite mixture back down to 68f. Last add the Rodinal and stir gently. I always added the Rodinal after mixing the Sulfite solution because mixing the Sulfite to get it into solution dissolves air into the mix and oxidizes the very dilute Rodinal which reduces its activity.

I processed thousands of rolls with this mix over time and noticed a reduction in activity if I mixed the Sulfite in after mixing the very dilute Rodinal.

I used 100g sodium Sulfite to 1L water at 68f then cooled back to 68f after mixing. I then added 10ml of Rodinal to the liter of Sulfite. Actually it'll be a little more than 1L after adding the Sulfite.

I processed for 14 minutes and got fantastic full speed negs with very fine grain and rich tones.

Ok now the bad news, when Kodak reformulated TX around 2006 they made some major changes. I've tried my old mix a couple of times testing the new film and the results were terrible. It no longer works. In the mid 70's I started using HC110 B in addition to the Rodinal Sulfite mix. HC110 B gave me another option with full box speed and beautiful tones and low grain.

I was in New Orleans shooting Mardi Gras in 06 and ran out of Delta 400 which had become my standard 400 film. I found a camera store and all they had was TX which I thought was OK. I bought a bunch of it and finished my shoot. When I returned to my darkroom and processed it in HC110 B per Kodaks recommendations I was horrified at the thin negatives I got. My Delta was also processed in HC110 B and looked beautiful. The TX negs were printable but not optimal. It was very apparent something happened when TX was reformulated.

I ran a test on the new TX in both HC110 and my Rodinal soup and found I have to rate TX at 250 in HC110B and got terrible looking negs in my Rodinal soup. Even HC110 at 250 didn't have the tonality and look of old TX. I wound up going to HP5 and Neopan 400.

 

[dschal]

Why not try a different developer? Or shoot a different film?

 

[x-ray]

TX is only TX in name since it was reformulated. Sad! It was one of the best films ever.

I'd suggest HP5 and HC110 B which is similar to old TX. For fine grain and beautiful sharp and full tonal scale negs TMax 400 in HC110 B or Delta 400 in HC110 B. I'm testing Bergger 400 right now but haven't printed any. I did test Fomapan Retro 320 and was very disappointed.

 

[p.giannakis]

Tri-X in Rodinal was my standard combo for a long time. Eventually I got fed up of the grain and switched to HC110. Higher temperature and constant agitation seemed to make matters worst. Also underexpose contributes to the problem.

If you really need to stick to this combination, try rating the film as 320asa, keep the Temperature steady at 20 oC and develop film with one gentle agitation every minute at 1:25 dilution. If you don't like the results, then maybe this combination is not for you.

 

[pixelated]

Your developer has little influence on sharpness, if your negatives are soft, changing developer won't really help.
Contrast is dependent primarily on the developing time, and secondarily on how much agitation you do.
Consistency is key, along with changing only one thing at a time. For example, if your source information suggests a time of 11 minutes at 68 degrees and you've tried that but want more contrast, then try a processing time of 12 minutes at 68 using the same agitation scheme.

As mentioned, Rodinal isn't a usual first choice for maintaining fine grain, in addition to the others mentioned you might want to try Kodak Xtol which will produce finer grain, almost as much sharpness and probably a little more speed, as compared to Rodinal. But whatever you choose, pick one and work with it for a while before trying something else.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

As others have said, Rodinal inherently produces more noticeable grain than a developer like D-76 or X-Tol, which have solvents in them (I believe that is part of what the sulfite is doing in the mix). If you are wedded to Rodinal and want finer grain, I would Google "Rodinal stand development", in which you develop for a long time with a very weak developer solution with no agitation at all. I have had good luck scanning negatives developed with that techique -- you get Rodinal's accutance, without exaggerated grain. There is still grain evident. But less and I found it pleasing.

 

[charjohncarter]

I'll answer your question, this is what I used:

TriX (200)Rodinal 1+50,14minutes,30seconds,3inversions every 3 minutes,68 degrees F

But even with this dilution and minimal agitation, I still felt the grain was too much for me. I agree the reformulated TX is different.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

As others have said, Rodinal inherently produces more noticeable grain than a developer like D-76 or X-Tol, which have solvents in them (I believe that is part of what the sulfite is doing in the mix). If you are wedded to Rodinal and want finer grain, I would Google "Rodinal stand development", in which you develop for a long time with a very weak developer solution with no agitation at all. I have had good luck scanning negatives developed with that techique -- you get Rodinal's accutance, without exaggerated grain. There is still grain evident. But less and I found it pleasing.

 

[oldwino]

Try Xtol. Either straight or diluted 1:1. 3 gentle inversions per minute.

 

[Ronald M]

Fine if you like large grain. D76 or Xtol stock or diluted will give best results.

Do not fall for stand developing. Works sometimes, not always.

Developers give sharpness, fine grain, or film speed. Pick two.

D76 1:1 is classic. Adjust time until highlights are correct. Around 8/9 minutes for #2 paper and condenser enlarger. Add 10% for diffusion enlarger.

 

[benlees]

I've been using Arista pro 400 and rodinal for the last year. Grain and contrast will be high no matter what. I do 12.5 min at 20c, 1+50 with minimal, very gentle, agitation. Keep in mind if your are scanning the grain will be accentuated. A wet print will look a lot less grainy.

I prefer HC110 but its hard to get around here!

 

[Fixcinater]

Another vote for HC110 for 35mm 400ASA.

I doubt the lab was using Rodinal unless you specifically asked them to do so. Likely they used something closer to D76, like Sprint or another commercial supplier of a middle of the road developer.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I like Rodinal and Tri-X. Here are some examples:

Expose the film at EI-320 and develop it in Rodinal 1+50 for 11 minutes at 68 degrees (20C). Agitate the first 30 seconds, then agitate every 30 seconds by inverting the tanks two times.

 

[papo]

OK, the results are in and they are defenitely too contrasty. Heres what i did:

1:50 Rodinal developer
15ml Ilfostop stopper with 285ml water
60ml Adofix fixer with 240ml water
1 little sprinkle of Adoflo wetting agent

Development: 12 minutes with 2x agitate (gently) every two minutes
Stopper: 1 min, 1 agitation
Fixer: 3 mins, 1 agitation per minute
Washer: several rounds of fresh water at the same temperature (does temp even matter when washing?) until the bubbly from the washer was gone

I would be willing to switch developers but i dont like powder stuff so what developer would you recommend? I liked DDX with HP5 plus btw so i wonder if thats a good combo. Thanks.