Need Advice, Which Camera?

[Two23]

I previously used Bronica 645 system and 4x5 field camera for several years, then bought complete Nikon pro DSLR system. The images I get are technically great, but something elusive seems to be missing. For the past month & half I've been shooting a Brownie Hawkeye Flash c. 1959. It's a lot of fun! I love the look I'm getting and the challenge of composing with it. This has been so much fun I'm wanting to move to a new, er, older camera.

Here's what I'm looking for. I know I want a folder, must use 120 film. I will mostly shoot b&w. Needs to be at least f4.5, and no slower than 1/200s. I'm not a collector, I want a camera to use every day. And night--I take a lot of night shots. So, need tripod sockets and viewfinder usable in low light. Now for my "emotional" needs. I would really like a camera made no later than 1940. I really love the styling of the cameras from the 20s and 30s. Can be 6x4.5, 6x6, prefer 6x9. Again, 120 film. This camera is going to be used! I mostly photos outdoors, and am very eclectic.


I love the look of the Ikon Cocarette Luxus from late 1920s, also Bessa R. The Kodak Regent looks really nice but I've read the viewfinder cripples it and it takes 620 (like my Brownie.) There are also Zeiss Ikon A, B, C from the 30s that I might be persuaded to buy as they have LOT going for them. Cost? Under $500 for sure, maybe more around $250 give or take. I want a pretty camera, something with a very high "cool" factor. I know I'll get a big kick out of using a 70 or 80 yr. old model. I've been looking and think a Tessar f4.5 lens and Compur shutter that gives at least 1/200s is what I'll likely end up with. The Zeiss Ikon Cocarette Luxus in 6x9 is on my short list, either in black/chrome or tan/black. Still keeping an open mind though. I know the cameras from about 1950 on are much better technically, but their styling just leaves me cold. My new camera must not only make art, it must BE art. Which of these cameras from pre-war era do you think might fit me best?


Kent in SD
PS--
I'm a rangefinder "virgin". 😀

 

[Alpacaman]

A Zeiss Super Ikonta sounds like it fits the bill, even the 1950's ones seem to have kept the older styling, and they are technically pretty good.

 

[hanskerensky]

You also might consider a Welta Weltur. Well made folders from Germany.

 

[Two23]

A Zeiss Super Ikonta sounds like it fits the bill, even the 1950's ones seem to have kept the older styling, and they are technically pretty good.

Yes, that's true. However, it's actually important to me that the specific camera is ~70 years old. I see such an old camera as a direct link from another time. Kind of hard to explain, I guess. I already have a fairly modern medium format system, the Bronica ETRSi, and am after something much older. I'll add that since I was born in the 1950s, I don't like to think of a camera from then as being "real old." 😱 😀 The Welta is one I've been looking at. It too seems to have a reputation for quality. The Tessar f3.5 lens and Compur/Compur Rapid shutter seems to be becomming my main criteria, although I still consider others that offer similar performance.


Thanks,
Kent in SD

 

[oftheherd]

You did not specify it must be RF. If that is correct, the world is open to you. Even if that is a criteria, there are still a lot of folder 120 cameras from that era. Weltas, Agfas, Zeiss Ikons, Kodak. Even some of the Japanese copies from the 40's and 50's might fill the bill for you. I have a Mamiya Six RF that always gets good reviews from users (I don't know as it needs a repair to the focusing mechanism I just haven't taken on yet. Soon). There were other RF folders, such as the Olympus. Check around or see if other members here will start showing theirs for you to look at.

In fact search this forum. I think there was a thread to show old folders, both RF and non. You mentioned a Zeiss 6x9. I have a non-RF 6x9 that I really love. It gives really great photos. I also have some non-RF Weltas that are superb picture takers, as are a couple of Fujicas.

Don't worry there are a lot of choices. Just make a choice and jump in. The water's fine and GAS is lurking in the back of your brain, waiting to strike. 😀

 

[Out to Lunch]

Have a look at the Voigtlander Bessa III. New/Old style.

 

[Brian Legge]

I don't have much folder experience but I recently picked up a Zenobia and have really enjoyed using it. Not a rangefinder but small, simple, and good image quality. Maybe it is typical of folders of the period it satiated my folder lust and for only $60 near mint camera.

I'd love a cheap, high quality 6x9 rangefinder. I picked up a Moskva 5 but it has strut issues significant enough to mess up the focal plan. I also find that I simply prefer shooting with Zenobia for the type of photography I'm doing with folders. Another big difference is how people react to them. The Zenobia is hardly noticed for some reason while the Moskva leads to reactions.

Here are some example shots from my first roll with the Zenobia. I need to get more pictures up:
http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=zenobia&w=59657594@N00

 

[Matus]

check out the webpage www.certo6.com to get an idea how much a fully restore folder could cost.

 

[Two23]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm currently leaning towards something like Zeiss Ikon Cocarette (20s vintage,) Zeiss Ikonta A, B, or C, or Bessa I. The Tessar f3.5 or f4.5 lens plus Compur/Compur Rapid shutter looks like it will do what I want too. All of these are pre-war manufacture. If I could buy one right now, it would be a Zeiss Ikon Cocarette Luxus from late 1920s, in tan leather, with Tessar f4.5 lens & Compur shutter. I'm a patient guy and will spend the weeks ahead reading up and listening to opinions, and watching for a clean looking pre-war folder to come up to me and say, "Hello sailor, like my dress?" 😀

As I mentioned in my first post, I've shot 35mm Nikons (F100, F5,) Bronice 645, 4x5 monorail & field camera, Nikon DSLR (D300, D700,) and currently I'm shooting a c. 1959 Kodak Brownie Hawkeye Flash. I've noticed that the camera I use actually does seem to dramatically influence what I photo and how. Obviously I don't shoot wildlife with the Brownie, but more than that, the camera seems to affect how I feel about the subjects and how I approach the whole shot. Shots from my Brownie are much more abstract and capture the "feel" of the subject, while shots from my Nikon DSLR are more about "literal" photos of something, and color.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a way to review every photo a camera ever took? Just think of what I might see from a camera made in 1928, or a Leica IIIc made in the opening hours of WW2. Wouldn't that be fascinating! The history and provenance of such a camera is important to me. I'm not so much a "gear head."


Kent in SD

 

[Vickko]

Hello,

Regarding "certo6", Jurgen sold me a Zeiss Super Ikonta C, very nice shape, and CLA'ed by him, but I just can't get into the camera. It is listed here for sale, and I'm asking what I bought it for, i.e. $650:

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/pho...duct/22844/cat/4/limit/recent/date/1273265288

It is one of the premier 6x9cm cameras, but I found that I simply prefer the Bessa II.

Would you be interested in my Super Ikonta C?

Vick

 

[Two23]

Hello,

Regarding "certo6", Jurgen sold me a Zeiss Super Ikonta C, very nice shape, and CLA'ed by him, but I just can't get into the camera. It is listed here for sale, and I'm asking what I bought it for, i.e. $650:


Vick

I'm thinking I want something even older, certainly pre-war. Would even consider something pre-prewar such as from before the 1920s. 🙂 Also trying to stay under $400 for sure. Thanks for the suggestion though.


Kent in SD

 

[JeffL]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I'm currently leaning towards something like Zeiss Ikon Cocarette (20s vintage,) Zeiss Ikonta A, B, or C, or Bessa I. The Tessar f3.5 or f4.5 lens plus Compur/Compur Rapid shutter looks like it will do what I want too. All of these are pre-war manufacture. ""

I have a 1928 Cocarette and suggest you stay away from the ones with the simplest shutter and the single element Goerz Frontar. It's not very good and my focus scale was WAY off. Might just be mine. Here a photo from it once I remarked the focus scale.

 

[Two23]

I have a 1928 Cocarette and suggest you stay away from the ones with the simplest shutter and the single element Goerz Frontar. It's not very good and my focus scale was WAY off. Might just be mine. Here a photo from it once I remarked the focus scale.

That's why I was looking at the ones with the Tessar 4-element. The cheaper Cocarettes also have three position preset shutter that goes no faster than 1/100.

Another camera that looks interesting to me is the oldest Bessa Voitlaender, the one that precedes the rangefinders and has the swivel finder attached to the lens. Not finding the faster shutter (minimum 1/200s) that I want on that one though. I'll keep looking. I'm a patient guy.

Vick--
What is it you like about the Bessa R and not the Zeiss Ikon?



Kent in SD

 

[Two23]

An update. I bought a c. 1937 Voigtlander Bessa 6x9, with brilliant & optical finder. Only has Voigtar lens but I think that will give the look I'm after. Also has 1/400 Compur Rapid, and I need the speed. It's in nearly mint condition! I think it will do the job. I'm pretty excited. Also bought an accessory rangefinder.


Kent in SD

 

[shimokita]

great... thanks for the update. Looking forward to see the results (photos of the camera and with the camera...).

Casey