Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Just got a lovely condition Jupiter-12 from Jocko, and I had a little trouble mounting it on the Kiev-4a (previously bought from Spark-303). Both work fine independantly; focus of the lens is smooth in-hand, and the camera body moves easily with the J8m on it.
The mounting of the Jupiter12 lens however is tight to say the least.
Setting focus to infinity, lining up the red dots, pushing the focus-release tab out the way, rotate so red dot is at 12o'clock, grinding-very-firm fit. Focusing ring on the lens clicks after a bit of a jiggle, and then the lens focusing moves proper.
The only problem is it feels like its grinding, like something tough between the helical things.
I'm thinking maybe the lens is a tough fit (lens - 88, camera - 64), or am I doing something inherently wrong. And no, I daren't touch the focus wheel on the top of the camera and ruin the gears!
Also the clip on the lens is firmly clipped in.
anyone else had this trouble, anyone got a quick-fix?
The mounting of the Jupiter12 lens however is tight to say the least.
Setting focus to infinity, lining up the red dots, pushing the focus-release tab out the way, rotate so red dot is at 12o'clock, grinding-very-firm fit. Focusing ring on the lens clicks after a bit of a jiggle, and then the lens focusing moves proper.
The only problem is it feels like its grinding, like something tough between the helical things.
I'm thinking maybe the lens is a tough fit (lens - 88, camera - 64), or am I doing something inherently wrong. And no, I daren't touch the focus wheel on the top of the camera and ruin the gears!
Also the clip on the lens is firmly clipped in.
anyone else had this trouble, anyone got a quick-fix?
fidget
Lemon magnet
My J12 also feels like it's grinding as the focus is moved, but only after fitting it to the body, when it "clicks" into position it is fine (although a little too firm to fucus using the wheel). When yours clicks into place, is the full focus movement possible? I'm wondering if it had locked in an incorrect position.
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
It will focus correctly I think - I'm souping a test roll now - but the only thing is to reach either extreme of the focusing it gets a little tighter.
brachal
Refrigerated User
My J12 is a tough fit on my Kiev 2a, always takes a little wiggling, but grinding is too strong a word. It fits easily on my '77 4a though. I don't think this sort of thing is uncommon with Kievs. Surely somebody who knows more than I do will weigh in soon.
Xmas
Veteran
Ash
If the lens is completely free when not mounted on the camera there are two things people do.
i) file the lens inner baynet follower - the floating spring loaded cylinder on the lens.
ii) move the lens body relative to the lens mount.
Never tried the former myself. It needs a method of detecting where the follower is binding on the cameras inner baynet fingers or surround. The formal scheme is engineers blue but any thin (like water) dye should do. Then you file the area touching clean off the lens and try again. You could try the edges of the lugs they are scalloped already in some J12, early ones.
The second has worked for me but seems like jiggery pokery. Remove the mount embillisher, three (or four) screws holding the chrome ring that almost touches the camera when the lens is mounted. Remove the screws with the lens off the camera, remove the embillisher ring, it slips off to the rear. Then losen the grub screws (which had been under the embillisher ring), they need only be taken back one turn. The grub screws are made of butter and should not be tight, they will shear of reeeeeeally easily. If you now mount the lens it may operate easier, if it does not ease out the grubs another turn and try the focus again. If the focus eases try and return all the grubs with the lens mounted at the old binding position. If they are fragile while they are in the holes then they are like china when they are not supported by the holes you cannot use the grubs to pull them selves back into the holes, if you get them back dont tighten them, you only need to get the embillisher back on. If they wont go back completely file off any excess to get the embillisher back on.
The grubs are not going to come undone when the embillisher covers them. The grubs have conical points and align the mount with the lens, when the bottom in the conical holes... They dont need to be bottomed, especially of your Kiev has other ideas.
It is easier then you may think and it may work I had two J12 that did not mount, got one so it will mount and operate perfectly in all my Kievs and Contax, the other has only a problem with one body and it is now only a slight tightness, all are usable with the focus wheel. I use a 35mm as a standard, and two bodies, one in bag one on lanyard.
If you are clumsy I'd not try this...
Recommedn you stick the embillisher screws on pressure sensitive tape in a paper development tray, keep the lens over the tray and dont mar the rear surface of the lens...
If the lens does not spin freely off the camera you need to address that first.
Noel
If the lens is completely free when not mounted on the camera there are two things people do.
i) file the lens inner baynet follower - the floating spring loaded cylinder on the lens.
ii) move the lens body relative to the lens mount.
Never tried the former myself. It needs a method of detecting where the follower is binding on the cameras inner baynet fingers or surround. The formal scheme is engineers blue but any thin (like water) dye should do. Then you file the area touching clean off the lens and try again. You could try the edges of the lugs they are scalloped already in some J12, early ones.
The second has worked for me but seems like jiggery pokery. Remove the mount embillisher, three (or four) screws holding the chrome ring that almost touches the camera when the lens is mounted. Remove the screws with the lens off the camera, remove the embillisher ring, it slips off to the rear. Then losen the grub screws (which had been under the embillisher ring), they need only be taken back one turn. The grub screws are made of butter and should not be tight, they will shear of reeeeeeally easily. If you now mount the lens it may operate easier, if it does not ease out the grubs another turn and try the focus again. If the focus eases try and return all the grubs with the lens mounted at the old binding position. If they are fragile while they are in the holes then they are like china when they are not supported by the holes you cannot use the grubs to pull them selves back into the holes, if you get them back dont tighten them, you only need to get the embillisher back on. If they wont go back completely file off any excess to get the embillisher back on.
The grubs are not going to come undone when the embillisher covers them. The grubs have conical points and align the mount with the lens, when the bottom in the conical holes... They dont need to be bottomed, especially of your Kiev has other ideas.
It is easier then you may think and it may work I had two J12 that did not mount, got one so it will mount and operate perfectly in all my Kievs and Contax, the other has only a problem with one body and it is now only a slight tightness, all are usable with the focus wheel. I use a 35mm as a standard, and two bodies, one in bag one on lanyard.
If you are clumsy I'd not try this...
Recommedn you stick the embillisher screws on pressure sensitive tape in a paper development tray, keep the lens over the tray and dont mar the rear surface of the lens...
If the lens does not spin freely off the camera you need to address that first.
Noel
Mister_Hat
Established
I followed the dismantle and clean instructions on the Kiev Survival site for my J12. After I got it back together (that spring is a b***h!) it mounted easily and I can focus across the full range using the focus wheel. YMMV.
colyn
ישו משיח
Ash said:
I was going to ask how it felt off the camera but you answered my question here..
Ash said:
The proper mounting of the J-12 is done by first setting both lens and helical to infinity then aligning the red dots and carefully mounting the lens with the infinity lock pressed in. Then turn to lock at the 12:00 position. Next turn the wheel (not the focus ring on the lens) till you here a click. The lens will now turn without binding.
As for the grinding...I would guess that the lens helical or body helical needs cleaning/lube.
Ash said:
Turning the focus wheel won't cause damage..
Xmas
Veteran
Some J12 wont focus when the catch locks they are stuck solid, i.e. you have used force to rotate the lens to mount it and the lens is not going to focus. Some lens merely have a tight spot after you focus from infinity to near and back to infinity successfully. Some wont focus all the way to near - whatever you do.
A good lens should not have any difficulty in mounting or focusing for the first time or afterwards, there may be a jam which relieved if/when you reverse direction on the first focus travel as the follower clicks into alignment, (with the inner mount the click is the follower driven by the spring, snapping into the inner mount lugs) but you should not get more then one baulk once.
The problem seems to be the focus follower on the lens is not coaxial with the cameras inner mount, it can happen with contax and J12 so the problem seems to be with the lens tolerances being too large when added to the focus mount tolerances of the cameras.
If you cannot fix it yourself it is sent both the camera and lens away as it is a mating problem.
The rule with any short focue lens is not to use the wheel if the lens is stiff to focus and if you cannot rotate the lens by hand it is stiff. Some J12 will need a relube before you should use the wheel. Some are really good out of the bay packaging.
Noel
A good lens should not have any difficulty in mounting or focusing for the first time or afterwards, there may be a jam which relieved if/when you reverse direction on the first focus travel as the follower clicks into alignment, (with the inner mount the click is the follower driven by the spring, snapping into the inner mount lugs) but you should not get more then one baulk once.
The problem seems to be the focus follower on the lens is not coaxial with the cameras inner mount, it can happen with contax and J12 so the problem seems to be with the lens tolerances being too large when added to the focus mount tolerances of the cameras.
If you cannot fix it yourself it is sent both the camera and lens away as it is a mating problem.
The rule with any short focue lens is not to use the wheel if the lens is stiff to focus and if you cannot rotate the lens by hand it is stiff. Some J12 will need a relube before you should use the wheel. Some are really good out of the bay packaging.
Noel
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
It must be down to the lens not mating, or it needing a lubing.I've tried the above mounting methods and it simply won't focus as smoothly as I would hope. However the grinding sounds more like scratching now. Still pretty difficult to focus.
Means I'll have to buy another Kiev eh?
Means I'll have to buy another Kiev eh?
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Yep I think the lens might need a clean actually. I took the lens off and although it focuses smoothly, when I put it to my ear I can hear tiny gritty sounds, and the focus is "smooth but firm" lets say.
I've managed to mount the lens easily, but I guess I've been thinking I mounted it incorrectly due to the grinding. The scratching/grinding sounds must exaggerate since the pressure of turning the whole focusing mech using the lens. Does that make sense?
looks like a CLA for this one!!
I've managed to mount the lens easily, but I guess I've been thinking I mounted it incorrectly due to the grinding. The scratching/grinding sounds must exaggerate since the pressure of turning the whole focusing mech using the lens. Does that make sense?
looks like a CLA for this one!!
Xmas
Veteran
Ash
The clean procedure you can do in a preliminary fashion yourself easily.
The threads of the focusing system are sufficiently visible from the rear of the J12 when at infinity that you can remove a % of the grease with dry cotton buds (q tips). When all the old grease visible is removed then you can wet a cotton bud in zippo fluid or meths and really clean the threads. When the threads are zqueeky clean then 3x drops of mum's sewing machine oil or PTFE shot gun lube, from the shot gun shop can be applied to the threads. Don't squirt it on use a probe with one droplet at a time. Then a few near to infinity focus travels and the J12 will be really slack in the focus department.
This will allow you to tell that your problem is mechanical or congealed grease.
Typiclly the answer is both. Sorry
Noel
The clean procedure you can do in a preliminary fashion yourself easily.
The threads of the focusing system are sufficiently visible from the rear of the J12 when at infinity that you can remove a % of the grease with dry cotton buds (q tips). When all the old grease visible is removed then you can wet a cotton bud in zippo fluid or meths and really clean the threads. When the threads are zqueeky clean then 3x drops of mum's sewing machine oil or PTFE shot gun lube, from the shot gun shop can be applied to the threads. Don't squirt it on use a probe with one droplet at a time. Then a few near to infinity focus travels and the J12 will be really slack in the focus department.
This will allow you to tell that your problem is mechanical or congealed grease.
Typiclly the answer is both. Sorry
Noel
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
I'm thinking save a bit of cash and send it to someone to CLA for me. Anyone here done a few with success?? I went to the Kiev Survival Site, and I'm REALLY not keen on tryin all that!!!
Spyderman
Well-known
Try this mounting procedure:
1.) set camera focus at 3 - 4m (to align infinity with the red mounting dot
2.) set lens focus at infinity
3.) mount the lens, lock by turning CCW
It took me some time to understand that the camera must be set to 3-4m to mount the lens easily.
1.) set camera focus at 3 - 4m (to align infinity with the red mounting dot
2.) set lens focus at infinity
3.) mount the lens, lock by turning CCW
It took me some time to understand that the camera must be set to 3-4m to mount the lens easily.
Ash
Selflessly Self-involved
Thanks for that 
I noticed when I removed the lens that the other helical on the body was rotating to another position.... I've tried as you said and it mounts easier but the focus is still a little rough.
CLA it is then??
I noticed when I removed the lens that the other helical on the body was rotating to another position.... I've tried as you said and it mounts easier but the focus is still a little rough.CLA it is then??
Xmas
Veteran
Ash
The CLA will make the j12 silky smooth off the Kiev, it still might be rough mounted on the body, try the cotton buds first. If you clean it up and it works then you need a CLA for longevity of the J12 focus system. if it does not work you need to send the lens and body away.
Dont know any one local who does this for £.
Noel
The CLA will make the j12 silky smooth off the Kiev, it still might be rough mounted on the body, try the cotton buds first. If you clean it up and it works then you need a CLA for longevity of the J12 focus system. if it does not work you need to send the lens and body away.
Dont know any one local who does this for £.
Noel
ErnestoJL
Well-known
I usually do the following to mount the lenses on both my Kiev 4 and Contax II:
a) lens and body set to infinite
b) align the two red dots (body and lens)
c) push the lens firmly in (to unlock infinite body lock)
d) rotate lens CCW until a click is heard.
The last click means that the spring loaded coupling cylinder in the lens is set to the right position (this engages the inner bayonet to the lens), so to actuate the RF mechanism. Check this with the bayonet lock held in non locked position with your thumb.
If the spring loaded cylinder isn´t absolutely free (check if it swings back and forth easily), it won´t engage properly, then focusing will be a nightmare: focusing wheel moves but not easy (sometimes it doesn´t), lens barrel rotates the same way, hard as a rock.
If that´s the case, dont try to focus with the focus wheel, you may damage the gears inside the body.
Check if, with body and lens separated, both can be focused (rotated) without trouble.
When removing the lens, the inner bayonet rotates to follow the CW lens rotation, but it´s not needed to align this with the lens to mount it.
Normally, use the body focusing wheel only for the normal lens, all the other lenses should be focused rotating the focus barrel. This is to avoid extreme efforts over the delicate gears inside the body.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Ernesto
a) lens and body set to infinite
b) align the two red dots (body and lens)
c) push the lens firmly in (to unlock infinite body lock)
d) rotate lens CCW until a click is heard.
The last click means that the spring loaded coupling cylinder in the lens is set to the right position (this engages the inner bayonet to the lens), so to actuate the RF mechanism. Check this with the bayonet lock held in non locked position with your thumb.
If the spring loaded cylinder isn´t absolutely free (check if it swings back and forth easily), it won´t engage properly, then focusing will be a nightmare: focusing wheel moves but not easy (sometimes it doesn´t), lens barrel rotates the same way, hard as a rock.
If that´s the case, dont try to focus with the focus wheel, you may damage the gears inside the body.
Check if, with body and lens separated, both can be focused (rotated) without trouble.
When removing the lens, the inner bayonet rotates to follow the CW lens rotation, but it´s not needed to align this with the lens to mount it.
Normally, use the body focusing wheel only for the normal lens, all the other lenses should be focused rotating the focus barrel. This is to avoid extreme efforts over the delicate gears inside the body.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Ernesto
Last edited:
Xmas
Veteran
Ernesto
You were correct !£%$, you probably were all to aware.
Tried my four J12 on my four normal bodies at random.
Only one was free throughtout the whole focusing range so that I'd have used the little wheel. (I never actually focus with the little wheel.) To tell the truth most days I set the focus at 10m after mounting the lens and check it has not moved, occassionally. I'm unlikely to wear out heliciods. Scenery does not move much.
I believe the CV short focus lens are all wheel usable (or so it is said).
Think I'll need to losen the grubs some more and if that does not work file the inside of the lens followers, i.e. remove the three pronged lens rear spring loaded follower, and remove metal as uniformly as possible.
Noel
You were correct !£%$, you probably were all to aware.
Tried my four J12 on my four normal bodies at random.
Only one was free throughtout the whole focusing range so that I'd have used the little wheel. (I never actually focus with the little wheel.) To tell the truth most days I set the focus at 10m after mounting the lens and check it has not moved, occassionally. I'm unlikely to wear out heliciods. Scenery does not move much.
I believe the CV short focus lens are all wheel usable (or so it is said).
Think I'll need to losen the grubs some more and if that does not work file the inside of the lens followers, i.e. remove the three pronged lens rear spring loaded follower, and remove metal as uniformly as possible.
Noel