Need some help with my new CL

[Bailey]

Hi,

This is my first post here on the RFF, and I'm really hoping that some of you more experienced members can help me out. I've been using fixed lens rangefinders for about a year and half now, since I bought an olympus XA to take to Costa Rica after losing my digital camera. Ever since that trip I've been hooked, buying a few more cameras for myself on ebay, and even a few for friends. Recently I decided to step up and get something with interchangible lenses. After a lot deliberation (and reading of this forum) I went with a leica cl instead of a bessa r2a. I realized that size really is a big factor for me and the cl seems like smallest M mount out there.

So, I got my cl, complete with both lenses and a flash, in the mail last week. I haven't gotten my prints back yet, but I'm a little worried. The meter seems to not work some of the time in low light (say f2 @ 1/60th). When I change the shutter speed the dial moves, but changing the apperture does nothing. When the meter responds normally (which it seems to do fine in day light) it seems accurate. I'm just worried that it might get worse. The seller said that he had problems with the meter before and that he speny $300 to have it fixed. He assured me that it worked and said he would refund all of my money if there was something that wasn't working. So can anyone tell me how concerned I should be about this. I know I'd be better off not needing the meter, but right now I'm pretty green still and I do like to shoot in bars and night and that sort of thing.

Also, assuming I keep the camera, I'd like to get a nice wide angle for it. I've been looking at the voigtlander line and I really like the 15mm. I'm just worried that it might be a little too wide for a lot of normal street shooting. I really want to like the 28mm because it's so compact and I wouldn't need a viewfinder, but I have to say I don't really find most of the images of seen at the focal length too exciting. Not really focused on one subject but not really wide enought to see the whole scene. Maybe I just haven't seen enough. I guess a 25mm would probably be the safest bet. Do any of you have any thoughts on what would be a good first wide angle for a cl set?

Sorry this post is so long. I really appreciate any help you all have to offer.

Thanks!


Bailey

 

[adayoncedawned]

Hmm, it is possible that you are dropping below the metering range and that's why it's acting strange in the low light situations. That is, the meter could be functioning perfectly fine, just that there is not enough light for the particular light meter in that camera to operate.

Have you done any experiments in a controlled situation to compare the meter versus your FM2 for example? That should allow a reliable comparison. Set the cameras up in a dim room and compare them stop-by-stop to see if there is a comprehensible pattern or behavior.

 

[Chuck A]

Hmm, it is possible that you are dropping below the metering range and that's why it's acting strange in the low light situations. That is, the meter could be functioning perfectly fine, just that there is not enough light for the particular light meter in that camera to operate.

Have you done any experiments in a controlled situation to compare the meter versus your FM2 for example? That should allow a reliable comparison. Set the cameras up in a dim room and compare them stop-by-stop to see if there is a comprehensible pattern or behavior.

This would be my guess as well. The CL meter only reads down to 5EV. I can't find a chart to tell how many EV 1/60 at f/2 is at ISO 100 but it has to be close to the meters operating limit.

 

[ampguy]

ev 8

ev 8

1/60 @ f2 @ 100 ISO is EV 8.

Did you try different batteries, like a Wein 1.3V cell? A modern 1.5V will throw it off if it hasn't been modified for 1.5V.

This would be my guess as well. The CL meter only reads down to 5EV. I can't find a chart to tell how many EV 1/60 at f/2 is at ISO 100 but it has to be close to the meters operating limit.

 

[Chuck A]

Thanks for the EV number.

The meter could be aging and having problems with lower light. I have been debating on getting a CL for a while and these kinds of problems with them always make me rethink. It seems hard to find one that is in perfect operating condition. They are getting pretty old.

 

[back alley]

use the sunny 16 or a handheld meter.
the cl is a wonderful little camera.
mine has had a recent cla and the meter works fine so i'm lucky i guess.

i bought it recently from enochroot and he obviously took very good care of it.
if my meter did go on it i think i might invest the money and have it repaired.
i have a hard time using my other cameras now...

 

[Bailey]

Thanks for all the responses. It certainly seemed to me that problem was that I was reaching the minimum amount of light that the meter could handle. I just wasn't sure if that was "as deisigned" or if the meter was starting to fail again. Looking at my inexpensive hand held meter it seems like the area where I start having touble is around ev 5 or 6. So the meter might be working as it should be. If it is starting to lose its minimum effective range will I still be getting accurate reads in higher light?

I think I'll probably keep the camera if my prints come back okay. I agree with back alley, this camera feels like it was made to be in my hand. I can't wait to get some more lenses for it. I really like the idea of putting the 35/2.5 cv pancake on it for ultimate compactness, but since I already have the 40/2 it's kind of hard to justify. I think I might like to eventually have both the cv 25 and the cv 15. Now I just have to decide which to get first...

Does anyone here know which russian lenes I can safely use on this? I've been thinking that the jupiter 3 might be a good way to get a fast 50 without spending too much.

Thanks again, everyone. This forum rocks.


B

btw- If anyone is curious to check out some of earlier work my website is www.baileybrent.com. It's mostly focused on animation and concept, since that's what I do for a living, but there is a photography section as well. It's the one part that's not complete though, and most of the captions are wrong. Hopefully I'll get that updated once I've got some new stuff from my CL to put up. 🙂

 

[back alley]

i just bought the 21/4, it's rf coupled, and a hellofa lot of fun!!

 

[Bailey]

i just bought the 21/4, it's rf coupled, and a hellofa lot of fun!!

Can you post some pics when you get them? I'd really like to see them.

 

[JoeFriday]

I'm pretty sure my CL reads down to f/2 at 1/60th.. but probably not much lower.. and it just had a CLA from DAG less than a month ago

the Jupiter 3 is a great lens, but generally they have focusing issues with non-FSU gear.. you might get lucky, however

but keep in mind that if your f2 lens won't meter at the low end, having a faster lens will get you even further below the meter's limit.. you might be better off finding a good Jupiter-8 (for less than half the cost of the J3)

 

[back alley]

Can you post some pics when you get them? I'd really like to see them.

will do.


joe

 

[ampguy]

Hi Bailey

Hi Bailey

Regarding the Russian lenses, the following work on my cl with LTM to M adapter fine:

I-61 non LD 50/2.8
J8 50/2.8
I-50 (collapsible) 50/3.5
I-22 (collapsible) 50/3.5
Canon Serenar 35/3.5 (sold)

On the collapsibles, collapsed, they get very close (like < 2mm) to the shutter and innards of the CL, so I would not blindly put these lenses on without first ensuring your particular CL and lens fit, or ensuring that the lens did not fully collapse first with Dymo tape or something around the barrel.

Thanks for all the responses. It certainly seemed to me that problem was that I was reaching the minimum amount of light that the meter could handle. I just wasn't sure if that was "as deisigned" or if the meter was starting to fail again. Looking at my inexpensive hand held meter it seems like the area where I start having touble is around ev 5 or 6. So the meter might be working as it should be. If it is starting to lose its minimum effective range will I still be getting accurate reads in higher light?

I think I'll probably keep the camera if my prints come back okay. I agree with back alley, this camera feels like it was made to be in my hand. I can't wait to get some more lenses for it. I really like the idea of putting the 35/2.5 cv pancake on it for ultimate compactness, but since I already have the 40/2 it's kind of hard to justify. I think I might like to eventually have both the cv 25 and the cv 15. Now I just have to decide which to get first...

Does anyone here know which russian lenes I can safely use on this? I've been thinking that the jupiter 3 might be a good way to get a fast 50 without spending too much.

Thanks again, everyone. This forum rocks.


B

btw- If anyone is curious to check out some of earlier work my website is www.baileybrent.com. It's mostly focused on animation and concept, since that's what I do for a living, but there is a photography section as well. It's the one part that's not complete though, and most of the captions are wrong. Hopefully I'll get that updated once I've got some new stuff from my CL to put up. 🙂

 

[John Robertson]

I also have a CL, my guess is you were out of the meters range, I use a MR 9 battery converter in mine, and it works OK. I can't think why you would want the J3 as well as the Summicron which is a far better lens!
With an adapter the 28mmOrion 15 fits but not the 35mmJupiter 12 or the 20mmRussar as they will foul the meter system. The CV 15 works fine as well. I have used the Nokton 50 with mine but you will be stretching the ability of the RF a bit!
Turn the back of the camera towards a bright light, and check the R/F window, there should be only a feint horizontal line visible, not a load of black specks.
The black specs would mean the silvering on the prism is going which is another common problem with these cameras.

 

[payasam]

Ampguy is of course right about EV 8 at ASA 100. For the sort of light of which you speak, you'll want to go down at least to EV 3. If you use faster lenses and film, even lower. A note of caution. No lens that you propose to use on the CL should go too deep into the body.

 

[Andy Aitken]

FYI Some nice compact lenses that work nicely on the CL are CV21mm f4, CV25mm f4, Kobalux/Avenon/Whatever 28mm f3.5 (especially this one).

Sounds to me like your meter is in spec - it just doesn't do well in low light (after all it was made in the early 70's!). If you do a lot of low light work the CVII camera-top meter works great.

Enjoy your CL it's a great camera despite a few quirks and the 40mm Summicron is a diamond.

 

[FrankS]

The CL meter is it's weak point. The good news is that the camera still works great even if the meter doesn't. The CL with it's 40mm Summicron/Rokkor lens is about the most capable and easy to use compact combo available. I used my old one with a VC MeterII on top because its built in meter was inoperative. It was also great with my CV25 lens (with the viewfinder in the hotshoe instead of the meter.) I also like screwmount Leicas as a compact package, but the viewfinder is squintier (when not using an external finder) and the shutter speed dial is more difficult for me to read with my "seeing far away" glasses on.

 

[Andrew3511]

Not that I've owned one but surely the problem here is that unlike the meter on my Olympus SLR's the CL is not metering at full aperture but at taking aperture. So though f2.0@1/60 may be EV8 and read OK it won't work at EV8 if that is f8.0@1/4.

Or have I misunderstood it?

 

[Trius]

EV is EV, so all valid combinations should work. I don't think the age of the design (early 70s) is the culprit; my OM-1 bodies from that period go to EV 2, the OM-2 EV 1.5 on manual. Auto exposure is different, of course.

 

[Bailey]

EV is EV, so all valid combinations should work. I don't think the age of the design (early 70s) is the culprit; my OM-1 bodies from that period go to EV 2, the OM-2 EV 1.5 on manual. Auto exposure is different, of course.

I'm not sure that's correct. I'm pretty new to this, so I could easily be wrong, but it looks like the meter is behind the lens. So it's getting whatever amound of light passes through the lens. So, by my logic, you can get to it's minimum effective range by closing down the apperture. But like I said, I'm new to this and I might not be understanding it correctly.

Either way, I got my first roll back and the exposures look good. There are even some low light ones that come out fine. I think I might just have to do a little guessing in dimly lit interiors. When I have time to scan them I'll see if I can figure out how to post images on here.

So. I'll be keeping the camera despite some mild concern I have that meter might be going. And from the looks of my fist few snaps with it, that 90 Elmar is sweeeeet.

 

[Bailey]

FYI Some nice compact lenses that work nicely on the CL are CV21mm f4, CV25mm f4, Kobalux/Avenon/Whatever 28mm f3.5 (especially this one).

Sounds to me like your meter is in spec - it just doesn't do well in low light (after all it was made in the early 70's!). If you do a lot of low light work the CVII camera-top meter works great.

Enjoy your CL it's a great camera despite a few quirks and the 40mm Summicron is a diamond.

I did a google search on that kobalux 28mm and it seems like a really good fit for the light and small cl set I'm trying to build. I can't seem to find any for sale on ebay. Do you know if they're still being sold somewhere?