new 15mm Heliar M-mount

I'd say that is just a case of Internet whining and non-issues getting blown out of proportion.

Forgive me for being unusually harsh, but whoever has a 15/4.5 and sees the lack of rangefinder coupling as a deficit hasn't used it a lot and doesn't know how to use it. Tell them to shoot a whole roll with it and count the out-of-focus images. I tried to get OOF areas on some shots and it was basically impossible.

In addition, if the lack of rangefinder coupling is the only complaint that Internet gearhead hangouts have about the Voigtländer vis-a-vis the Zeiss and Leica lenses that cost like ten times as much, it's actually a huge compliment for the Voigtländer.
Click to expand...

All that you say is true but if you were redesigning the barrel of this lens, to avoid any criticism in advance like, "if they redesigned it why didnt they add rangefinder coupling?" wouldnt that be the time to do it? Some simply find focus confirmation in the viewfinder comforting or allows continuity of use with other coupled lenses even though as you say its not necessary on a lens of this focal length. This could equally apply to 21mm lenses with their greater depth of field but how many of the 21mm lenses on the market lack rangefinder coupling? I Have never once heard them complained of being wasted engineering when certainly they could easily be scaled focus as well, and with the 15mm being popular with crop factored Digitals bringing it up to this focal length (which we know by their new zoom viewfinder they do consider a market) its logical to cover all bases and couple it. Remember no one is obliged to stop scale focusing if they so desire.
 
They woulda coulda shoulda? But they didn't. It kept costs low. Something wrong with that? They could mill the entire mount and mechanism out of brass and stainless steel so it would outlast the glass itself but they didn't do that either. Scale focusing isn't the end of the world. At f/4.5 you set the thing at one meter. Period! Perhaps 1.5 meters at f/2.8. You could as well have substituted epoxy resin for the grease in the focusing helical. At least you wouldn't have to worry about turning the ring by accident. Now what WOULD be nice would be an internal filter turret with room for four or five filters at a time, but interchangeable with other filters. That would be a lot simpler to design without a silly focusing mount at all.
 
Last edited:
kipkeston said:
Wouldn't RF coupling be useful on the M8?
Click to expand...
Why should it?

You get the equivalent of a 20/4.5, with more DOF than on 35mm film because of the smaller sensor. Hyperfocal distance wide open is 2.2 meters on the M8, at which everything between 1m and infinity will be in focus. They could have made this a fix focus lens.

It's true that from a marketing point of view (when redesigning the barrel anyway) it may make sense to appease the critics, even though the criticism itself is an indicator of a lack of knowledge on behalf of the critics.. Then again if it's anything like the 21/4 in M-mount, I see this more as a price increase: you get a less compatible lens for more money, possibly without a finder.
 
I bought a 15mm Heliar as soon as it became available. The hyper-focusing required never bothered me much. The lack of filter threads only bothered me when I needed an IR/Cut filter for the M8 - but I managed to install 39mm threads for that too.

However, now that one is becoming available with RF coupling and 52mm filter threads, my name is on top of the list to get one.

BTW, children that don't get along and play well together generally find themselves getting a 'U' in citizenship.
 
I think it was like 10 grand in '72! Probably no more than that today. First there was competition from the much cheaper 16mm Hologons, then when Voigtlander introduced the Heliar at lollipop prices everybody wanted a taste. The 15mm viewpoint is no longer all that rare. On the other hand not that many M Hologons were ever produced, maybe a few hundred at most. Find one in new condition with finder, caps, box, papers, and center filter and you'll be able to buy a lot of Tri-X
 
Last edited:
The coupled 15f4.5 does have a place. IF you are using a M8/RD1/G1 Lumix, this lens turns into a medium wide. Close up focussing becomes critical, particularly at f4.5. The depth of filed is huge, but there is still a plane in focus which can be critical. Think shooting architectural models, detailed interiors etc - critical focussing is paramount.
For "normal" shooting at medium to long distance - it really doesn't matter - but one of my reasons for not even wanting the 15f2.8 ZM was that a/it is huge and b/ it is not coupled ( and at that price it should be).
As for 52mm filters - most of us have piles of them left over from our Nikkor lenses. I know I do. Deep red filter on the 15f4.5 could be rather dramatic!
I had the original Hologon (in 1971 it was $699 with the finder). Never got along with it. F8 and massive edge fall off, f16 with the center filter - and it did not focus to infinity.
 
Looks to me like M8/RD1 users are the main target for this lens. As Tom says, on those cameras RF coupling will be useful at max aperture. The handy filter thread will also appeal to M8 users for their IR filters - I've personally never seen the big deal in using filters with the LTM version (my 72mm adaptor cost all of $2 and works perfectly) but some folks don't like hacked solutions so I guess this version will appeal to them.

Me, I'd much rather see Cosina produce a genuinely new lens for a change - like maybe a 50mm/1.2. Now that I could get exited about.
 
Last edited:
PMCC said:
They should dream up a Bessa R6 with 12-15-18-21-25 framelines to deal with the auxilliary VF problem (emphasize dream). Meanwhile, maybe the M mount 15 will rescue a few Bessa T bodies from the back of the cabinet.
Click to expand...

Well it wasn't that long ago we were told that it was not possible to put a 21 finder in the rangefinder of a camera! Then came the R4M/A. Problem with doing something like a 12/15/18/21/25/28 would be the range finder magnification. It would have to be pretty small 0.3 or 0.4 to allow for that span of focal length - and the 25f28 frames would be tiny. My dream would be a 12/15/18 finder built in - largish finder (bigger bump on top like the Zeiss ZM) and rangefinder for the 15/18 - you truly dont need that with the 12mm!!!
By the way - the R4M/A finder has a fair bit of "free space" around the 21 framelines. I find that I can use the 18 as a "what you see is what you get" finder. No worse than a 28 frame on a 0.72 M6 finder. And I suspect that the new coupled 15 could work too - though you would get more than you see - which I prefer to the other way around.
 
I find myself using the 15mm Heliar for close in shots a lot. And at that distance it does have a depth of field. I don't know if I'll be buying the M version, but it makes sense to me.
Cosina seems to be discontinuing the screw mount lenses for the M ones. I guess they are re-enacting history. To bad for us barnack owners, though. A 21st century, computer engineered aspherical lens on a 1932 camera is very cool.
 
One thing that the release of the new lens will change is the availability of second hand examples of the first. I can't actually remember the last time I saw one for sale in the classifieds!

I bought mine as an M8 kit from the CV distributor here in OZ (comes with 21mm finder) and strangely it was the cheapest place in the world for that kit at the time! I thought about getting the 15mm finder to use on my film bodies but have discovered that using the entire viewfinder on my R4A is more than close enough ... and as Al Kaplan has pointed out on numerous occasions once you learn to 'see' with this lens you don't really need a finder.
 
Melvin;1013101 Cosina seems to be discontinuing the screw mount lenses for the M ones. I guess they are re-enacting history. To bad for us barnack owners said:
It makes complete sense. When Cosina came out with the LTM series of lenses, there was still some "huffing and puffing" about the Leica M patent on the M-bayonet. There was also an untapped market of old screw-mount cameras in Japan, 1000's of owners of IIIf's and g's looking for different "glass" as well as the fact that a 39mm thread is much easier to machine than a clawed bayonet. However, there are limitations to the 39mm mount. You have to leave enough space for the thread and the focussing cam and that reduces the potential size of the rear element. This in turn limits the speed of lenses to be designed. Hence the 35f1.2 with its M-bayonet only for production. I asked about the possibility of a screw-mount 35f1.2 and was told "the thread would have to be machined into the edge of the rear element!!!"
Today, most LTM users have had their chance to pick up whatever they need as to lenses and adapters. If they missed it the first time around, they can always go used.
It is too easy to wait on the sideline for a "good deal". If you need it, buy it when it is available. Look at the adapters for Nikon F to RF lenses - you blinked and you missed it. Now they are twice the price -IF you can find one.
There are plenty of LTM CV lenses out there - and will be for a long time. Yes, some of the more desirable ones are probably start climbing in price, 15f4.5's, 21f4's. Snap Shot Skopars, 35/2,5 1'st version pancake and 50f2.5's.
There is a small trend back to "classic" cameras and film. Not so much in North America but in Japan/Asia/Europe and even cameras like Canon P's/7's etc and Leica LTM are holding up well. This will ultimately "raise" the demand for certain pieces, both vintage original equipment and new, modern designed lenses.
As for a modern, computer designed multi Aspherical lens for your Leica II from 1932 - look no further than the Nokton 50f1.5 . First 50 mm lens with aspherical shape on both sides of a single element!
Click to expand...
 
Keith, now that I've learned to "see 15mm" sometimes I forget that I didn't bring the Bessa L camera with the 15. There's just that frame in my brain and no way to record the image. I do a pretty fair job of "seeing" 35 and 90 also but I need the finder to focus and aim.
 
Last edited:
So is this going to come with a finder? I am interested to see how the price compares to the LTM 15/4.5 with an adapter (~$450). I just got back into Leica again, and this time I intend to finally getting around to buying one of these.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom