New 50mm F-1.0, a good "standard lens" or a special case?

[jdos2]

I had the opportunity to handle a new Leica MF the other day, as a Leica rep came through Cleveland. Nice. I very much liked it with the f1.0 lens.

I've heard that the lens suffers from flare and isn't really a good standard lens, compared with other 50mm's- that the f-2 and f-1.4 are actually better for hauling with the camera.

I'd like to know what people here think.

This is still "an idea," as I've not the time to find someone to buy the Mamiya 7 and lenses quickly enough for me to make my Wednesday "Goin' back to Portugal" deadline... I was thinking of using the Leica there.

I know that even poor 6x7 lenses can create images that look better than the best 135 format shots possible, but the little Leitz still has an attraction...

 

[znapschatz]

Unless you habitually work in dark places where flash is out of the question, you are much better off with a Summicron, which is smaller, lighter, sharper and less expensive. Part of the reason to go with 35 mm is portability and this property should be compromised only by necessity. In close to 50 years of photography I have used f1.4 or faster (I once owned an f1.2 Canon on a Canon 7 RF) fewer than 6 times, and only really needed it once. Depth of field is the big limitation. There's not enough of it at maximum aperture when the subject is closer than 20 feet.

 

[jdos2]

That it isn't as sharp would be the prime consideration- I admit that I'd only use it at 1.0 rarely, but it it isn't as good as other lenses stopped down, there's no point. DoF isn't much of a consideration- I've shot lots of pictures with a 100 f-2.8 allaway open...

Thanks!

 

[kajabbi]

The Noctilux is an outstanding lens. There is NO flare. That being said, you need this lens if you are limiting your photography to nighttime, low-light pictures. The drawbacks are many. It is HEAVY! The DOF wide open necessitates carefull focusing and lots of practice. if that's your "thing" go for it. The lens is not limited to wide open however. At F4 and up you will be hard pressed to differenciate from the Summicron. only after using a tripod, and enlarging the images beyond 16X20 you might see a slight edge to the summicron. If you do decide on the Noctilux, get the next to the latest version, the one with the snap-on hood. The collapsible version is a pain as it does not lock out. And you can save yourself a good deal of money.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

The Noctilux, as the Summarit on its heyday, suffers, according to some Leica users, of a certain softness. I was thinking about one myself, but the legendary Summicron convinced me. Not long ago I considered getting a Summilux, because I was getting a fairly nice deal from a store in NY, but again, the Summicron won by being nicely sharp at f2.

If you intend to do a lot of night- or available light photography, sure, nothing beats the Noctilux. But at the price it comes... I wouldn't know how to justify the expense.

 

[kajabbi]

If we had to justify the expense, we'd be taking pictures with a $200.00(or less) point "n" shoot and Leica would have passed from the scene 50 years ago.
Leica would be in the same company as Rolls Royce, Mercedes Benz, Cadillac, Range Rover, BMW, and so many more.

 

[jdos2]

Actually, from what I understand (from the Medium Format Super Site) many modern box cameras have center lens resolution far greater than film could resolve.

We pay for all the other things that go along with it. The only way I could rationalize a Leica purchase is that it is functional.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

Kajabbi, you're right about not needing to "justify the expense." However, let me put it this way: I couldn't justify an expense the size of the Noctilux because I don't know how many times I'll get to use it to its full "power", or to its full capacity. Besides, I already have a Summicron, so the 50mm focal length is covered.

Now... I really would like the Summilux 35mm f1.5 Aespherical. I can justify that purchase to myself, the problem is I don't have the dough. That's all...

 

[jdos2]

Another Dream Lens...

 

[kajabbi]

Francisco, I entirely agree with you. I came up in the era where the 50MM lens was the "universal" lens. I still feel more comfortable with the 50. I do use the 35MM, but in dim-light situations, I seem to retreat into my original comfort zone(50).
If you ideal zone is the 35 then, by all means, explore the choices available in the focal length. Cosina makes a 1.7 that is gang-busters(for a more realistic price). I have the old 35Mm1.4 and am very happy with the results. There are quite a few aroung and the price isn't too bad.

 

[NVARon]

Cosina 35/1.2 a good low light lens

Cosina 35/1.2 a good low light lens

The Cosina Voigtlander 35/1.2 seems a good choice for those more comfortable with a 35 lens than a 50. Here is a link to the first role of pictures I shot with this lens. I cheated an used a flash for a couple shots, but otherwise,

http://homepage.mac.com/rbluesw/PhotoAlbum25.html

Not having used a Noctilux can make no comparison, but I was shooting 1/30 sec and 1/15 sec on many of these shots.

 

[paul]

Silly way to spend $2,000. Silly way to get back & neck pain.

 

[jdos2]

Mmmmm. Silly. I like being silly, especially if silly takes good pictures.

 

[jdos2]

I just came back from a trip where the 1.0 would have been a good thing, as I was limited to f-4 with the standard lens, not that I missed any photos, but instead had to lean on things, stabilize the camera, &c.

Wish I could find a nice bright standard for medium format that was packable! Leica might have to do the trick.

 

[Todd Phillips]

The Noctilux was designed for one thing.....photos wide open at F:1. Why would they make this lens otherwise. To use it at F:8 is NOT what it was designed for!

How many photographers NEED this speed? Some Nat'l Geo. photogs. (William Albert Allard shoots alot of natural light indoors), come Magnum photogs. shooting Kosovo refugees huddled around a single candle, etc. But for the most part....isn't F:1.4 fast enough (IF you use it wide open?).

It's horses for courses....you don't need this fast of lens unless you really NEED it. But go to any Leica meeting and you'll see several mounted on cameras being worn as...well, worn as what?
Jewelry??

Yeah, if I had the money, I'd guess I'd have a Porche or Jag, but do I need it.....no. But, hey, this is America...if you want it and can afford it...why not go for it!

 

[kajabbi]

OKAY! NEW LEICA PRODUCTS WE CAN EXPECT! Stefan Daniel, the head of Leica product development (I think I got that right) started out by putting a prototype LHSA gray hammertone MP on the lectern in front of him. He confided that when he first saw the gray hammertone top plate, not yet fitted to a body, he didn't much care for the look of it. After he saw the finished camera, though, he though it was "all right."


Asked about the possibility of a digital M, he explained what we on the Leica Forum already know: it can't be done with present sensor technology. Stefan said it was their dream to make one; but until someone comes up with a sensor that doesn't have to have little micro-lenses in front of the pixels, or little filters, it will stay a dream. Someone wanted to know if he perhaps had a digital M in his pocket, and wasn't satisfied until Stefan turned his pants pockets out!


So, no digital M. How about auto-focus? Nope. Will there be an APO 75mm f/1.4? Stefan didn't know. Will there be a redesigned and updated 50mm Summilux? YES! It is a priority! Stefan said we can expect one. How about a 75mm Summicron? Stefan said a lot of interest has been expressed, and it "could happen."


What else? Stefan said Leica is not satisfied with their lens hoods and caps on some models, and is looking to improve them. And--are you ready? They are considering made-to order Leicas. You tell them what features you want, and they build it. Sort of like a Dell computer, maybe?

FYI! This was taken from another Forum.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

This was an interesting discussion on the famous dilemma Summicron vs. Summilux/Noctilux, but now it took a nice slant.

Thanks for the news, kajabbi! Is this from the St. Louis meeting?

I'm planning on joining the LHSA at the beginning of 2004. Will I be able to attend their meetings? Only if they take place in Chicago, and if they include a weekend! 😛

Bact to the Track: if the 50 f1 becomes the standard again, we might see a new generation of Summicrons and Summiluxes at lower prices! That surely will affect the Leica "wearers", but not us, poor saps with champaign-taste-on-a-beer-budget.

However, I still doubt about the "practical" reasons to make a switch and turn these fast lenses into the main thing: in fact, we're seeing pure marketing muscle here, the same muscle that transforms Leica into "male jewelry"...

 

[kajabbi]

Hi Francisco.,
This report originated in St Louis at the LHSA annual meeting.
I would think the reformulating of the Summilux 50 ia a given as the current formula is thirty+ years old. The improvement will be in the images at F1.4. and probably F2. Beyond that the lens is as good or betteras 99% of us that use them.

 

[kajabbi]

As far as the Noctilux becoming the "Standard", it's not very likely. I very much doubt that the F1.0 has be manufactured in the last 5 years. I think LEICA is still selling stored inventory and there will not be a "new" model developed and built for years if ever.It would be quite revealing to know the actual movement of new Noctiluxes at retail in REAL numbers. My guess the number would be extremely small. Much more sales in the "used" end of the product. "I get tired of mine and sell it". You buy ,use it for a while, sell it to another and so on. As LEICA users we tend to take good care of our stuff, the used market is full of "cared for" items.

 

[SolaresLarrave]

In other words, the Noctilux is pure Leica hype.

As I stated above... I'd have a hard time justifying its use. When would I get to really use a very fast lens? Not on a camera whose fastest shutterspeed is 1/1000, and which seems to gag if you load it with regular film (400) on a sunny day. The truth is that I've seen Noctiluxes for sale at $1900, but then, that's about the cost of a brand, spanking new 35 'cron Aesph, which I would appreciate more.

Good we're on the same boat here, kajabbi. Can you imagine a day in which such a fast lens becomes the standard? Fuzzy photos galore! 🙁