New Classified feature

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Ok, what will the next charge be? Pay per page or maybe per word posted. And for you that think $25 is not much money try waiting on your disability with very limited income. Think before you make a generalized statement as to how it makes some feel. I have had to sell some gear to pay my medical co-pay and to keep some film in the fridge. This site is getting to elitist and commercial for me. The idea of a small community has been replaced by impersonall big business. What ever happened to the place "where everyone knew your name"
 
Brian Sweeney said:
It has been less than a week since you implemented the premium membership fee. Adding this on top of it is a mistake. The Classified Ads include some Free Items, For Trade, low-priced items, etc. I made a lot more money on EBay selling stuff than I ask for it here. That's because RFF is a community where people appreciate the stuff.

Give the premium membership some time. Gaining filesize and upload number to display images is worth it; supporting the site is worth it; paying for a formerly free service that is "Ebay-Lite" and will bring in less money for a given item as compared to selling it on Ebay is not worth it.

Brian has made many good points. We're on a slippery slope here, have been for several weeks. I'll throw in a few more thoughts for consideration.

You run a RFF Contest ostensibly to increase membership. You advertise the contest on Pnet and elsewhere to drum up new members. When new members flood in at a rate you did not prepare for or anticipate, resources are strained. When are we going to get that bigger is not always better in so many aspects of our lives? Not bigger cities, stripmalls, developments, and in this case, perhaps, not bigger forums. There is still some value to a town where you know everyone.

My local politicians (the mayor, city council, governor) are always out there trying to court this or that company with giant tax breaks to come in to the state or town and set up a new factory. They assure me it will create a hundred or a thousand new jobs. But what they fail to think about is the actual unseen and unpopular costs, the actual footprint of increasing numbers. Environmental costs, healthcare costs, school expansion, social services, more taxes to support the growing population. Increasing populations in any context is not an endeavor that has costs in a vacuum. So who in the end benefits when they taut a new company coming in? Almost never the existing people who were there to begin with, save a select few.

The costs of increasing membership has far wider 'environmental' impact than just more traffic for your sponsors/advertisers. The site was bogged down for quite a few days. People (even some old veterans of this site) seem to be on edge more often than before. The attitude of friendliness and comraderie has subtly changed. In the last few weeks, I've seen more petty arguments among members than I've ever seen in the previous year and a half.

I come here because there is a core group of very decent, helpful, nice people who are fun to talk to. They are still here, but lately it seems like they are being drowned out by loudmouths and politically correct AND incorrect extremists. People who believe a shoutdown is the highest form of conversation. In short, I come here to get away from all that is wrong with Pnet's Leica forum and Ebay. In steady drips, I'm sad to find that these differences are eroding. And in short order, may not even exist in the future.

Forget the last straw and the suspense of waiting for the next big announcement, just go to a subscription fee and be done with it.

Cheers
 
Flyfisher Tom said:
Brian has made many good points. We're on a slippery slope here, have been for several weeks. I'll throw in a few more thoughts for consideration.

You run a RFF Contest ostensibly to increase membership. You advertise the contest on Pnet and elsewhere to drum up new members. When new members flood in at a rate you did not prepare for or anticipate, resources are strained. When are we going to get that bigger is not always better in so many aspects of our lives? Not bigger cities, stripmalls, developments, and in this case, perhaps, not bigger forums. There is still some value to a town where you know everyone.

My local politicians (the mayor, city council, governor) are always out there trying to court this or that company with giant tax breaks to come in to the state or town and set up a new factory. They assure me it will create a hundred or a thousand new jobs. But what they fail to think about is the actual unseen and unpopular costs, the actual footprint of increasing numbers. Environmental costs, healthcare costs, school expansion, social services, more taxes to support the growing population. Increasing populations in any context is not an endeavor that has costs in a vacuum. So who in the end benefits when they taut a new company coming in? Almost never the existing people who were there to begin with, save a select few.

The costs of increasing membership has far wider 'environmental' impact than just more traffic for your sponsors/advertisers. The site was bogged down for quite a few days. People (even some old veterans of this site) seem to be on edge more often than before. The attitude of friendliness and comraderie has subtly changed. In the last few weeks, I've seen more petty arguments among members than I've ever seen in the previous year and a half.

I come here because there is a core group of very decent, helpful, nice people who are fun to talk to. They are still here, but lately it seems like they are being drowned out by loudmouths and politically correct AND incorrect extremists. People who believe a shoutdown is the highest form of conversation. In short, I come here to get away from all that is wrong with Pnet's Leica forum and Ebay. In steady drips, I'm sad to find that these differences are eroding. And in short order, may not even exist in the future.

Forget the last straw and the suspense of waiting for the next big announcement, just go to a subscription fee and be done with it.

Cheers


Tom, you've hit the nail squarely on the head! Jorge please read this.
 
Flyfisher Tom said:
People (even some old veterans of this site) seem to be on edge more often than before. The attitude of friendliness and comraderie has subtly changed. In the last few weeks, I've seen more petty arguments among members than I've ever seen in the previous year and a half.

I come here because there is a core group of very decent, helpful, nice people who are fun to talk to. They are still here, but lately it seems like they are being drowned out by loudmouths and politically correct AND incorrect extremists. People who believe a shoutdown is the highest form of conversation. In short, I come here to get away from all that is wrong with Pnet's Leica forum and Ebay. In steady drips, I'm sad to find that these differences are eroding. And in short order, may not even exist in the future.

Forget the last straw and the suspense of waiting for the next big announcement, just go to a subscription fee and be done with it.

I agree - I too have found that over the past few weeks, the 'atmosphere' of the site has subtley (or not so subtley) changed for the worse. I hope that this is not a permanant change....
 
greyhoundman said:
Even though it would probably prevent me from being a member. I'd definitely say a flat yearly fee is the way to go. $10.00 to $25.00 a year, with full benefits to paying members.


My sentiments exactly. I count Gman as part of the core that was attractive in the first place about RFF. I have a feeling many of these folks will not be a member in the new regime. That's sad to ponder.

Alright, you've got RFF bigger, but is it better? Some will stay (more power to them). But, I suspect many good people will be voting with their feet, and that is truly regrettable.
 
I am just a newbie but am associated with several outstanding forums similar to RFF where there is a strong sense of community and "help the other guy out" attitude.

I disagree with this classifieds ads approach and have never seen this type of thing done on the other forums that I participate in and love. I like the "old" classifieds here cause it was simple and *NOT* ebay and buyers and sellers could arrange for payment however they pleased.

What I have seen done is that only subscibing members can post in the classified section but it is open to everyone to view and PM to purchase an item.

Please Jorge reconsider this $2.50 new classifieds section. I respectfully disagree with this decision but want you to know you have my full support as you search for the best solution.
 
Flyfisher Tom said:
Brian has made many good points. We're on a slippery slope here, have been for several weeks. I'll throw in a few more thoughts for consideration.

You run a RFF Contest ostensibly to increase membership. You advertise the contest on Pnet and elsewhere to drum up new members. When new members flood in at a rate you did not prepare for or anticipate, resources are strained. When are we going to get that bigger is not always better in so many aspects of our lives? Not bigger cities, stripmalls, developments, and in this case, perhaps, not bigger forums. There is still some value to a town where you know everyone.

My local politicians (the mayor, city council, governor) are always out there trying to court this or that company with giant tax breaks to come in to the state or town and set up a new factory. They assure me it will create a hundred or a thousand new jobs. But what they fail to think about is the actual unseen and unpopular costs, the actual footprint of increasing numbers. Environmental costs, healthcare costs, school expansion, social services, more taxes to support the growing population. Increasing populations in any context is not an endeavor that has costs in a vacuum. So who in the end benefits when they taut a new company coming in? Almost never the existing people who were there to begin with, save a select few.

The costs of increasing membership has far wider 'environmental' impact than just more traffic for your sponsors/advertisers. The site was bogged down for quite a few days. People (even some old veterans of this site) seem to be on edge more often than before. The attitude of friendliness and comraderie has subtly changed. In the last few weeks, I've seen more petty arguments among members than I've ever seen in the previous year and a half.

I come here because there is a core group of very decent, helpful, nice people who are fun to talk to. They are still here, but lately it seems like they are being drowned out by loudmouths and politically correct AND incorrect extremists. People who believe a shoutdown is the highest form of conversation. In short, I come here to get away from all that is wrong with Pnet's Leica forum and Ebay. In steady drips, I'm sad to find that these differences are eroding. And in short order, may not even exist in the future.

Forget the last straw and the suspense of waiting for the next big announcement, just go to a subscription fee and be done with it.

Cheers

I do agree with the previous posters that this is hitting the nail on the head.
 
For my 2c worth, I agree with many of the recent posts and in particular Tom's words.

As for the classified's specifically, I appreciate the facility to exchange items of kit with friends in this community. I would rather my surplus items went to a good home and I like being able to get items from a source that I can trust. If the classified thread goes to a quasi auction/BIN site, I will not use it but would use eBay where I have a bigger audience and could get more with the dubious possibility of some form of back up.

Kim
 
flashover said:
the items I have sold here we not to make a profit and in most cases went for less then I might of got elsewhere. John K

Yeah totally. I haven't made a profit on what I've sold here 😛

All this aside, I still can't get that "post new ad" button on my console. What's up?

But I'd have to say I disagree with this new classified too. Aside from it being fussy, it sorta lacks the community feeling of the old section.

If I wanted an auction type sale, I'd go to ebay.

Best, Charlie
 
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Also, with the listing fee now here I think more people will just use ebay since there is a wider audience of potentioal buyers with the potential to make more money. If noone uses the classifieds here then maube it will have to be changed back to how it was. I would pay a subscription fee for this to happen.
 
Don't like the new Classifieds. Don't like them one little bit. Please put them back the way they were!

Also, I'd be more than willing to pay a subscription fee to use this site. I check it several times daily and I've learned more about photography here than I ever did in school. $10-$25/yr is a small price to pay for the value I get from this place.
 
captainslack said:
Don't like the new Classifieds. Don't like them one little bit. Please put them back the way they were!

Also, I'd be more than willing to pay a subscription fee to use this site. I check it several times daily and I've learned more about photography here than I ever did in school. $10-$25/yr is a small price to pay for the value I get from this place.

Absolutely
 
Byuphoto said:
Ok, what will the next charge be? Pay per page or maybe per word posted. And for you that think $25 is not much money try waiting on your disability with very limited income. Think before you make a generalized statement as to how it makes some feel. I have had to sell some gear to pay my medical co-pay and to keep some film in the fridge. This site is getting to elitist and commercial for me. The idea of a small community has been replaced by impersonall big business. What ever happened to the place "where everyone knew your name"
I'm sure that no-one intended any offence by their suggestion that $25 was a reasonable fee. We can only speak from our own frames of reference, and for many people, I suspect that it's true that $25 per year is a reasonable, or at least affordable, amout. If someone had suggested that the yearly fee was $300 dollars, or $3000 dollars, certainly then there would be a need for discussion.
 
OK, the horse is on the ground. Most of us seem to be in agreement over most of this.

RFF is a community, and we keep on saying that we pride ourselves over what it is and what it isn't. Right?

Let's do a fundraising drive for this year's (or two) operating costs.

How does that sound? I don't think RFF would be a stranger to that...
 
Something like that would need to be contingent on having the classifieds going back to the way it was before I would agree to a fund drive.
 
I agree with the overall sentiments in this thread. The new classified section is not good. I avoid e-bay and I don't want it to be replicated here. I donated the $25 for a Premium Membership the day Jorge asked for it, not because I want to post more photos but because it was the right thing for me to do. If the $25 were simply a membership fee with no gallery privlidges I would be fine with that as well but to nickel and dime me in the classifieds section is not good. I know RFF is not inexpensive to run and maintain. This site has been unbelievably helpful, inspiring and quite welcoming for me to a level that more than justifies $25 from my pocket. Charge a $25 membership fee if you must but keep it simple and leave the classifieds as they were.
 
Lightstalkers is a free forum with 7,500 members some 75,000 images and a pretty good sense of community spirit. It's run by a very small team of people and like Jorge do it for free on the back of another day job. Recently it changed servers, the galleries went down and lots of complaints and bickering started and the community became more divided. Seems to a similar same pattern here.

Clearly some find the idea of paying $25 too much but it's a small price to pay when you consider all the gear talk and "I've just purchased ....." that goes on here.

The classifieds should go back to the way they were. Informal. Same as on Pnet and Lightstalkers otherwise it becomes another version of Ebay and where's the communitiy spirit there?

I think Jorge and the moderators take on a lot to keep everything up and running even if it has had hiccups in the last few weeks. Wha't important to remember here is the reason why Jorge choses to do this. FOR US.
 
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