NIKON KIU
Did you say Nippon Kogaku
Dear Roger,
IMHO,
1)It's no bother for Nikon at all, they are going after those million Leica lens owners.
2) Don't Worry, Leica won't go out of business as Fred hopes. They'll become wiser, The M8 will drop in price...
Photokina will be a blast.
Kiu
fortynine
Member
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear N.K.,
I'm not sure how the M8 can drop in price, and still be sold at a profit. And continuing not to make a profit would hardly qualify as wisdom.
I agree that photokina should be very interesting. Will you be there?
Cheers,
R.
Bill58
Native Texan
Maybe just to do one better than Leica?
fortynine
Member
with a nikon DRF, I dun think enough has been said about Nikon's liveview tech coming to RF. this LCD display tech is now standard feature in all DSLRs.
positives with shooting via the back LCD
1. Lenses less than 28mm can now be viewed and composed without external viewfinders.
2. Front-focus, backfocus issues are now moot cos we're focusing the image, not the viewfinder.
3. Framing problems with odd focal lengths are also moot 25,40, 100 etc
4. DOF preview is live. We have DSLR-like control over bokeh
5. Macro photograhy has no framing or focus issues
6. This RF can shoot telephotos with high accuracy cos image LCD sized and not small VF rectangle
7. Discrete shooting. Camera need not be at eye-level
positives with shooting via the back LCD
1. Lenses less than 28mm can now be viewed and composed without external viewfinders.
2. Front-focus, backfocus issues are now moot cos we're focusing the image, not the viewfinder.
3. Framing problems with odd focal lengths are also moot 25,40, 100 etc
4. DOF preview is live. We have DSLR-like control over bokeh
5. Macro photograhy has no framing or focus issues
6. This RF can shoot telephotos with high accuracy cos image LCD sized and not small VF rectangle
7. Discrete shooting. Camera need not be at eye-level
Ray Nalley
Well-known
Viewing at shooting aperture is a bear. Stop down your 35mm slr lens to f11 and try focusing it. 
And you would need IS because it would be hard holding a 90 steady holding the camera out in front of you.
And you would need IS because it would be hard holding a 90 steady holding the camera out in front of you.fortynine
Member
>>>>>>>Viewing at shooting aperture is a bear. Stop down your 35mm slr lens to f11 and try focusing it.
and my liveview automatically returns a stopped-down dim image to bright viewing levels. Ain't liveview tech a beauty
>>>>>>>And you would need IS because it would be hard holding a 90 steady holding the camera out in front of you.
With a light dRF instead of a dSLR brick, it would be easy holding. Saves my neck straining in architecture, close up, odd angle shots
and my liveview automatically returns a stopped-down dim image to bright viewing levels. Ain't liveview tech a beauty
>>>>>>>And you would need IS because it would be hard holding a 90 steady holding the camera out in front of you.
With a light dRF instead of a dSLR brick, it would be easy holding. Saves my neck straining in architecture, close up, odd angle shots
Ray Nalley
Well-known
I guess when you are designing with air, anything is possible!
fortynine
Member
this already exists on canon & EFs. Stopped down, I can see the LCD auto-adjust brigthness upwards.
Since Liveview LCD ( with contrast AF ) is standard feature set, I imagine AF lens are coming for sure.
This is fresh air for dRF.
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Frankie
Speaking Frankly
For me, it is not so much the weight but the bulk that bothers me...the simple reason why I would not buy a D3 or even a D700.
I came from the F2 school of hard metal, I am used to weight. A good wide strap helps a lot.
The bulk is something else.
If I had to buy a DSLR tomorrow, I select the D700 and add the hand-grip/battery thing if I really need 8 or 9 FPS.
All that makes the DRF (hopefully not bulky) attractive.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Leica is still there, and struggling for life. It has shortened beyond a critical size for a modern optical company.
Nikon is a giant with R&D funds, whereas Leica is a dwarf.
And the second thing which is different than 1959 (launch of the Nikon F), that it it don't take some hundred thousand USD to bring out a new camera concept, but probably the hundredfold.
A dRF will make some hundred people happy in this forum, but for NIKON just 0.1-1% more sales. Plus, it will probably kill LEICA... Every Japanese company had tried to avoid this in the past. The market will not reward any company that murdered Leica, and I guess it wouldn't do any good to the market either. Japanese managers traditionally are wise people (that's why Japanese companies outran German or America). They probably know about it.
Nikon is a giant with R&D funds, whereas Leica is a dwarf.
And the second thing which is different than 1959 (launch of the Nikon F), that it it don't take some hundred thousand USD to bring out a new camera concept, but probably the hundredfold.
A dRF will make some hundred people happy in this forum, but for NIKON just 0.1-1% more sales. Plus, it will probably kill LEICA... Every Japanese company had tried to avoid this in the past. The market will not reward any company that murdered Leica, and I guess it wouldn't do any good to the market either. Japanese managers traditionally are wise people (that's why Japanese companies outran German or America). They probably know about it.
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ferider
Veteran
Nikon could just buy Leica.
Or build a DRF with very limited lens selection.
It's just a few days. Will be fun to wait and see ...
Roland.
Or build a DRF with very limited lens selection.
It's just a few days. Will be fun to wait and see ...
Roland.
Sonnar2
Well-known
Nikon will not buy Leica because what is most valuable of Leica is the brand name, owned not by Leica itself but by a company which gambles on it. Otherwise it would be an ideal buyout candidate.
VinceC
Veteran
Concerning the comments about bulk ...
The size of the bodies and lenses is the reason I shoot rangefinders. I can fit my three principle lenses in the palm of my hand ... with protecting filters, I regularly keep them in pockets. Put a small 28 on the camera and a fast 50 or 35 in a pocket, and I'm good for the day. No bag. No bulky camera. Just set it on the table at a restaurant or visiting friends, and it's always there. I just don't like doing that with an SLR because of the bulk. So I don't see any point in an RF camera that uses F-mount lenses (which, of course, can't be focused on an RF camera because of the design of the F-mount. The F-mount has huge lens housings to accomodate the spring and trip-mechanism for SLR mirrors and wide-open focusing).
RF lenses with their F-mount equivalents:
And F-mount spilling out of the palm of my hand:
The size of the bodies and lenses is the reason I shoot rangefinders. I can fit my three principle lenses in the palm of my hand ... with protecting filters, I regularly keep them in pockets. Put a small 28 on the camera and a fast 50 or 35 in a pocket, and I'm good for the day. No bag. No bulky camera. Just set it on the table at a restaurant or visiting friends, and it's always there. I just don't like doing that with an SLR because of the bulk. So I don't see any point in an RF camera that uses F-mount lenses (which, of course, can't be focused on an RF camera because of the design of the F-mount. The F-mount has huge lens housings to accomodate the spring and trip-mechanism for SLR mirrors and wide-open focusing).
RF lenses with their F-mount equivalents:
And F-mount spilling out of the palm of my hand:
Attachments
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Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Vince: Exactly. Hence M mount dRF or m4/3s RF.
micromontenegro
Well-known
Exactly. No killing needed (as a competitor, Leica is already dead). The "new" SP and S3 show us how the people at Nikon is (or have been) thinking.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I think that any rumours of Leica's "death" are vastly overstated. If anything they could very well emerge stronger than ever. Dr Kaufman runs it now and he is a/ Leica enthusiast and b/ he has deep pockets and c/ he also has a plan for pulling the company out of the morass they managed to sink themselves in!
They are rethinking product lines, upgrading products and looking at far more innovative products than ever before.
No, they are never going to be mainline company, but their place is fairly secure (or as secure as any company making "niche" products today). Their pricing policy is difficult to get around, but lenses like the 28f2.8 Asph and the f2.5 line shows that they are thinking of us lesser "mortals" too. From my personal point of view, the 50f0,9 or the 28f1.4 are interesting but not at the prices that are going to be charged for them.
Of course the M8 needs to be replaced, the Pixel wars takes no prisoners and to hang in there they need a full frame camera, but wise from the problems with the M8 hopefully they will post pone it until it is ready for relase.
Neither the Konica Rf (remember that one) or Cosina/Zeiss has so far "killed" Leica. If anything it has creted new interest in Rf's around the world. A Nikon Drf will become an alternative to the Leica, just as the CV and Zeiss are. So it might clobber M8 sales, but Leica would not take it sitting idle and would up the ante for some future M Drf.
Yes, if they make one that means that my 35 is still a 35 on it - I would go for it, as I would for a full frame Nikon Drf - IF it is compatible with my camera cabinets overfolwing drawers of LTM and M lenses!!!
They are rethinking product lines, upgrading products and looking at far more innovative products than ever before.
No, they are never going to be mainline company, but their place is fairly secure (or as secure as any company making "niche" products today). Their pricing policy is difficult to get around, but lenses like the 28f2.8 Asph and the f2.5 line shows that they are thinking of us lesser "mortals" too. From my personal point of view, the 50f0,9 or the 28f1.4 are interesting but not at the prices that are going to be charged for them.
Of course the M8 needs to be replaced, the Pixel wars takes no prisoners and to hang in there they need a full frame camera, but wise from the problems with the M8 hopefully they will post pone it until it is ready for relase.
Neither the Konica Rf (remember that one) or Cosina/Zeiss has so far "killed" Leica. If anything it has creted new interest in Rf's around the world. A Nikon Drf will become an alternative to the Leica, just as the CV and Zeiss are. So it might clobber M8 sales, but Leica would not take it sitting idle and would up the ante for some future M Drf.
Yes, if they make one that means that my 35 is still a 35 on it - I would go for it, as I would for a full frame Nikon Drf - IF it is compatible with my camera cabinets overfolwing drawers of LTM and M lenses!!!
caperunner
Established
Photokina 23-28th sept. Not a few days after all! There is still time to finalise the design!
Now what do we really want in a DRF? :angel:
Now what do we really want in a DRF? :angel:
Nando
Well-known
Tom brings up a good point. If it wasn't for Mr. Kobayashi sparking my interest in RFs, I'd probably wouldn't have purchased a Leica body and three lenses (new).
infrequent
Well-known
did tom just confirm that leica is releasing a 50/.9 and 28/1.4 at photokina?! ; )
i second what tom said. if leica is really made to work harder, i am sure they will. the question is if nikon will come to the party and then its game on!
i second what tom said. if leica is really made to work harder, i am sure they will. the question is if nikon will come to the party and then its game on!