New FED Problems

[BradM]

Hi all,
new RF convert here!
After much research, I've bought a NKVD FED (1b) from Oleg at OK Photocameras and I'm trying to use it!

One minor problem, the top rear centre set screw was loose (not gripping the thread) and I have now lost it - does this let light into the camera? It looks like it might as the other two screws on the back seem to go through into the body.

One major problem, I am getting film jams and breaks. I think I am cutting and loading it correctly, I have seen the different websites (including the thread here) on loading it but it's just not happening as it should.

I am getting the film tension on the sprockets by adjusting the advance and rewind dials while it is in rewind mode. However when I advance the film properly, the sprockets jump out of the film perforations. When it does this it is random, sometimes it will grip and advance and sometimes not, meaning, I guess the film might only advance 2/3rds of the way before the camera is primed for the next shot. This is damaging the perforations and sometimes it is breaking them. When advancing, it isn't always smooth - tension changes and you can feel the film popping out of the sprockets.

Of course when it does break it means you can't advance the film any farther. When I try to rewind it will only rewind for a turn or two before becoming hard to turn before jamming and snapping the film.

This has happened to the first three films I have loaded into it. :bang:

If I run some loose 35mm film through the camera it works smoothly.
The problems only occur when I put a 35mm cartridge in.

Any ideas before I send the whole thing back to Russia?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Brad

 

[Nickfed]

However when I advance the film properly, the sprockets jump out of the film perforations. When it does this it is random, sometimes it will grip and advance and sometimes not, meaning, I guess the film might only advance 2/3rds of the way before the camera is primed for the next shot. This is damaging the perforations and sometimes it is breaking them. When advancing, it isn't always smooth - tension changes and you can feel the film popping out of the sprockets.


If I run some loose 35mm film through the camera it works smoothly.
The problems only occur when I put a 35mm cartridge in.


Brad

Hello

It would appear at first that there might be a problem with the spockets, but if you really do have everything kosher when you run some loose film through, then the finger of suspicion points at the only thing that not being exercised in that event - the rewind knob. It sounds a dumb answer but just check that this is easy to turn at all times. If it's sticky a bit of lube should fix it.

I can't imagine this being connected to your problem, but I have noticed that Kodak cartridges seem to go in, and come out (!), easier than Fuji. They look the same to me and I don't understand it. Still, you might check to ensure the cartridge is not being distorted.

This link
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-101.html

shows how easy it is to remove the case of a FED-1. The top deck holds all the mechanism and it all works when removed. If there is anytrhing wrong with the sprockets, it is likely to be immediately obvious. Check the rewind first. I don't think any dismantling is needed to fix that.

I don't know about the screw but I wouldn't trust things without it.

 

[laptoprob]

Welcome and congratulations on your classic choice.
Sounds indeed like an advance problem, or a sprocket problem.
My last FED2 (a recent one) was a film eating one. The sprockets were too sharp or something, they attacked the film perforations!
Getting cartridges out is a problem i recognise. My FED1 tends to hang on to film cartridges quite firmly.

If this film advancing problem does not get solved easily, contact Oleg. I only heard good things about him, he should respond properly I guess.

Rob.

 

[ZorkiKat]

Hi Brad

Welcome to the fold.... 😛

You mentioned that 'loose film' doesn't jam, but film spooled in a cassette does. Without seeing the what really is happening, I would suspect that the rewind knob or the base plate lock is detaining the spool and prevents it from turning properly. Either would prevent film from threading through smoothly.

If the baseplate lock is the one at fault, the handle (protruding end) of the film cassette will look worn as if it had been rubbing heavily. If the rewind shaft turns with difficulty, it would be the probable cause. If it turns tightly, it may have to be oiled. The shaft should turn easily.

There are plenty of reasons why the film should run tightly. It could be tight channels, or even a pressure plate whose springs have been displaced, causing it to bear on the film track with more tightness.

The screw your camera lost (the one found between the eyepieces?) will not cause fogging or light breaches into the camera in its absence. However, you should find a replacement for it as soon as possible since a loose top plate can bear badly on the tubes of the eyepieces.

A word about disassembly- avoid it if you can. FED NKVD have critical lens mount adjustments whose values are non-standard.
When you dismantle, make sure that you remember the position of the paper shims below the lens mount flange. These paper rings are spacers which position the flange at exactly the required position for the lens to work right. FED NKVD are especially problematic since they did not use the standard 28.8mm register. The value can be anything and is certainly unique to your camera. Each camera had been adjusted individually so that its lens can focus properly. If you do not restore the camera as its lens mount had been positioned, lens will not be able to focus accurately.
Click on the FED Zorki Survival site link below for more details on the disassembly of the FED-1.



Jay

 

[DaveP]

Try this at least until you get a handle on cutting the film,, with the camera upside down and the lens facing you, slip a business card ,aligned with the left edge of the shutter crate, down into the camera until it stops(make sure it slips over the second film rail), put the film leader into the take up spool and pull just enough film from the cartridge so the cartridge and spool will slip into the camera, pull out the business card and wind on. The only reason to cut the film leader is because uncut film will not slip over the second film rail. The business card will allow this. follow the advice on lubing the rewind knob shaft. I cant imagine Oleg sending a faulty camera, but I am sure he will resolve it if something is amiss.............

 

[je2a3]

Here's a simple tip for smooth advance and rewind on bottom loaders: take a look at the bottom of the take up spool and make sure it is smooth. I usually clean it up/polish by sanding it with very fine sandpaper. If the spooling mechanism is really at fault, that may need to be addressed first. Just email Oleg, I'm sure he'll sort it out.

Joseph

 

[BradM]

I would suspect that the rewind knob or the base plate lock is detaining the spool and prevents it from turning properly. Either would prevent film from threading through smoothly.

If the baseplate lock is the one at fault, the handle (protruding end) of the film cassette will look worn as if it had been rubbing heavily. If the rewind shaft turns with difficulty, it would be the probable cause. If it turns tightly, it may have to be oiled. The shaft should turn easily.

Aha! That's what is at fault, the rewind knob was very difficult to turn. A squirt of lubricant and the whole thing turns freely now.
I have run a film through and it is better.
Still a minor problem near the start of the film, with the sprockets, about 4-5 shots in, it somehow broke the perforations after what I think were a couple of "slips" in winding. I took the baseplate off to see what happened and wound the film on after disengaging the sprockets with the rewind switch. The rest of the film worked well, though I advanced the film very slowly and deliberatley in case turning it fast makes it jump out.

Rewinding held no major dramas and the film is back in the canister!

I will send the film in for processing tomorrow. Hopefully they can salvage some shots out of it!

The screw your camera lost (the one found between the eyepieces?) will not cause fogging or light breaches into the camera in its absence. However, you should find a replacement for it as soon as possible since a loose top plate can bear badly on the tubes of the eyepieces.
[/UNQUOTE]

No, not that screw, there are three screws each on the front and rear that hold the top plate to the body. This one is the rear centre screw. I took a screw off the shoe and placed it there. Its still a little loose, might have to put some tape there.

A word about disassembly- avoid it if you can. FED NKVD have critical lens mount adjustments whose values are non-standard.
[/unquote]

Hmm, I very nearly did take the flange off, I took three of the four screws out and thought "No, better not". Hopefully that didn't put it out of alignment. I certainly didn't see any shims.

Thanks for your help and your welcome guys. I may get it working fully yet!

Cheers,

Brad

 

[Nickfed]

Hmm, I very nearly did take the flange off, I took three of the four screws out and thought "No, better not". Hopefully that didn't put it out of alignment. I certainly didn't see any shims.

I'm sure you will find that all is OK. Just do the obvious and make sure all screws are properly down and to the same tension. There is no need to get spooked by having an NKVD FED either. Essentially, it comes apart and goes together like any other FED-1.

May your efforts come out clean, sharp.......and fog-free!

 

[ZorkiKat]

Aha!



No, not that screw, there are three screws each on the front and rear that hold the top plate to the body. This one is the rear centre screw. I took a screw off the shoe and placed it there. Its still a little loose, might have to put some tape there.

]

Hmm, I very nearly did take the flange off, I took three of the four screws out and thought "No, better not". Hopefully that didn't put it out of alignment. I certainly didn't see any shims.

Thanks for your help and your welcome guys. I may get it working fully yet!

Cheers,

Brad

Oh that screw. Yes, have the hole left by the lost screw covered. Though it will not compromise body stability, it will certainly cause fogging. Make sure its fully covered- black tape or even tinfoil glued over it can suffice. A loose screw in its place will not not assure light proofness- it can still breach light. Seen this happen plenty of times.

If you didn't find the shims under the mount, then it might be OK. Did you ask Oleg if the camera's actual working distance had been measured? A lot of FED NKVD may have been repaired without regard for this matter. Oleg may have picked up the camera and repaired it as he found it without really knowing how it "should" be. That tight rewind knob should be an indication that the camera's worth as a picture taker is still suspect.

FED NKVD can be a nightmare to calibrate. I'm speaking from experience here- not simply assumptions. I attempted to CLA (not even repair) my first FED NKVD- disassembled it and never bothered to note the position of the shimming. I THOUGHT that my extremely limited knowledge based on disassembling Leicas was enough- Shims were not found in the Leicas and I got them back working and focusing right without these spacers under the mount.

When I actually shot with this NKVD, the focus was off. I tried to adjust the RF (again using what I knew worked with Leicas) and the focus never got right. I gave up with it (its just sitting in a display shelf, still waiting to be calibrated, as a reminder of that wise-assed folly). It was only when I read Maizenberg that I realised how critical FED NKVD can be when it comes to calibration. Not having any documentation as to what the camera's and lens' actual values were, the only way to fix it was to determine the lens' s real working register first and then adjust the lens mount on the camera to agree with this. Measuring the lens register required a substitute focusing device (which I don't have).


The second FED NKVD I got was quite crappy when it arrived- broken shutter and all. With this one, I decided to re-set the working distance to the real Leitz 28,8mm value, replacing the original lens mount with one from a dead Leica. A lot of shimming (in some places, only bits of paper were used) to 'raise' the mount to the proper position so that the 28,8mm working distance can be retained throughout.

Second step had been to adjust the RF both at infinity AND minimum distance foci (through the RF port screw and RF sensor tip respectively) so that the Leitz Summitar I substituted for the orignal FED lens coupled right. This NKVD is the only of its type I have (and the 2nd oldest of my FED, dating from about 1936) which actually WORKS as a shooter. Even f/2 lenses focus on the dot.

Good luck with your FED NKVD. If your test shots don't come out sharp, it could mean that you would have to adjust your lens mount and your camera's rangefinder tp correct this.

Jay