New Fuji / Voigtlander 667 Folder Update

[kuzano]

I trust Fuji... do not think they will repeat mistakes.

I trust Fuji... do not think they will repeat mistakes.

I've had three of the GS645 folders. All of them were excellent camera's after Frank Marshman dealt with two of the major chronic issues.... poor shutter linkage design and poor bellows material. One of the cameras was abused and Frank set a couple of other things right.

Fuji pulled the camera off the market after a production run that lasted about a year, which partially explains the lack of service and parts.

Even at that, people are paying outrageous prices for the 645 folder without any indication of bellows and linkage issues dealt with. So, the bad press on the camera is high because buyers are not discriminating on the overall history and individual history of each camera.

Fuji knew about their problems with the GS645 and ceased production in a timely fashion.

I have NO concern that we will see repeats of these issues on the new Fuji and Voigtlander folders. Not gonna happen.

I am buying one, without reservation.

In a way, I am obligated. Between the 645 Fuji's and the 690 Fuji's I have owned enough of them (probably a dozen), and they have served me so well, that it would be an insult to Fuji for me not to buy this new folding 6X7.

 

[JohnTF]

Regards, John[/quote]

Yes it was bought new after reading about it in Modern Photography.
Faults were
1. Wind on would move the film but not arm the shutter correctly, ie. shutter would fire but remain open. (three times)
2. Crack apeared in the body on the hinge side of the front door, seemed to be caused by the fixture of the hinge. Camera was never dropped!!
Caused a light leak cured with a strip of black Dymo Tape!!
3. Bellows developed light leaks, at corners, the top plastic layer developed cracks. Bellows replaced (twice)
On average I put one film a week through it (when it was working!)
I am known to look after my cameras, the ones bought new still work and look excellent some after 50 years!!
My Adox Golf 6x6 r/f was more reliable, and cheaper.
I also had the close up kit with two supplementary lenses and suplementary R/F

depressingly similar[/quote]

You think it was put together on a Monday? ;-) I would have thought they would simply have replaced it for you.

John

 

[John Robertson]

You think it was put together on a Monday? ;-) I would have thought they would simply have replaced it for you.

John[/QUOTE]

Monday morning after a night on the Saki
The plastic lens hood/filter holders were also awful, filter would jam and unless you had child sized fingers almost impossible to remove.
Replacement was never offered by Fuji UK

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Everything Old is New Again

Everything Old is New Again

Does anybody have the dimensions and weight of the new Bessa III? I'm thinking it is going to be slightly bigger than my two Bessa I (6x9 and 6x4.5 with mask), and bigger by far than my Perkeo I and II 6x6.
Might be lighter due to the use of plastics, though. ???????

 

[Ronald_H]

Sorry, if it has been asked before but is it feasible to add conversion lenses to a camera like this? I know of course that these things exist for early high end digitals, but after doing a bit of research on the Yashicamat 124, I know they exist for Bay 1 too.

Soooo, it probably wouldn't be an optimal solution, but it would make the camera a bit more attractive to me.

 

[dhpc]

Big pictures on the german webside:

http://www.voigtlaender.de/cms/voigtlaender/voigtlaender_cms.nsf/id/pa_fdih7jzjul.html

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

More specs

More specs

Does anybody have the dimensions and weight of the new Bessa III? I'm thinking it is going to be slightly bigger than my two Bessa I (6x9 and 6x4.5 with mask), and bigger by far than my Perkeo I and II 6x6.
Might be lighter due to the use of plastics, though. ???????

The specs + some (German site) picture measurements by me (ED), give or take 1 mm.

Technical specifications.

Folding camera with coupled rangefinder
Film choice 120/220 film
6x7 cm (56x68 mm ED)(120-10 exp. / 220-20 exp.)
6x6 cm (56x56 mm ED)(120-12 exp. / 220-24 exp.)
Switch for frame sizes inside the body (ED)
80 mm/f3.5 (4 groups 6 elements)
7 rounded aperture blades (ED)
Bright frame-type viewfinder.
Physical rangefinder base 37 mm (ED)
Automatic parallax compensation
Integral LED exposure metering indications
Electronically controlled lens shutter. 4-1/500 sec, B
Exposure control: SPD Sensor
Center-weighted averaging system
Aperture priority AE and manual switchover
Exposure compensation approx 2EV in 1/3EV steps
Film speed: Manual setting, ISO25-3200 (1/3EV step accuracy)
Manual film wind by winding knob
Mechanical-type counter
120/220 (changeable)
6x7/6x6 (changeable)
CR2 (3v) lithium battery
Outer dimensions: 176x111x63 mm folded (ED)


Ernst Dinkla

 

[chippy]

Does anybody have the dimensions and weight of the new Bessa III? I'm thinking it is going to be slightly bigger than my two Bessa I (6x9 and 6x4.5 with mask), and bigger by far than my Perkeo I and II 6x6.
Might be lighter due to the use of plastics, though. ???????

Leigh I meant to say earlier but as you can see by Ernst's estimates in size which seem much the same as i get, the Bessa III appears slightly higher and longer and much thicker than the Bessa I & II. We could assume the weight would come in lighter with plastics involved, even the Bessa I (760g) is somewhat lighter against the Bessa II (860g). missing the rangefinder of course but also the Bessa I seems to be made a little less solid/heavy (different) than the Bessa II in the top plate housing and front bed

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

20 mm more frame size on the old Bessas

20 mm more frame size on the old Bessas

Leigh I meant to say earlier but as you can see by Ernst's estimates in size which seem much the same as i get, the Bessa III appears slightly higher and longer and much thicker than the Bessa I & II. We could assume the weight would come in lighter with plastics involved, even the Bessa I (760g) is somewhat lighter against the Bessa II (860g). missing the rangefinder of course but also the Bessa I seems to be made a little less solid/heavy (different) than the Bessa II in the top plate housing and front bed

The body width of a Bessa I is 165 mm and its frame width 88 mm, one of the widest of the 6x9 folder category. I guess the Bessa II isn't much different to that, I do not have one to measure it. So a 20 mm wider film frame with a body 12 mm less wide than the Bessa III. There can be a good excuse in the better lens aboard for the bulging front. There is a good reason for the heigth with a large rangefinder window but for the width I can only see the curtain mechanism as an excuse and what brings it: 12 mm more frame size if compared to the 56x56 size. As I wrote before Fuji needs to sell film and the folder aficionados want compact cameras. The two do not measure up this time.


Ernst Dinkla

 

[Solinar]

The two do not measure up this time.


Ernst Dinkla

To tell you the truth - if the Bessa III was a 6x7 / 6x9 combo, I'd be pacing the floor waiting for its release next Spring.

Except for 6 by 4.5 - the better quality folders with coupled rangefinders are not that small. My Bessa II is a handful, as is my Super Isolette.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Sorry, if it has been asked before but is it feasible to add conversion lenses to a camera like this? I know of course that these things exist for early high end digitals, but after doing a bit of research on the Yashicamat 124, I know they exist for Bay 1 too.

Dear Ronald,

Yes, it can be done, but it might well place an excessive strain on the front standard, and it would be bulky and inconvenient (cf Retinas) so it probably won't be done.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Peter]

My God! Is this the camera that would lead me to the dark side of medium format? The must buy factor is very strong in this new Voigtlander! Must fight the temptation! :bang::bang::bang:

 

[Abbazz]

My God! Is this the camera that would lead me to the dark side of medium format? The must buy factor is very strong in this new Voigtlander! Must fight the temptation! :bang::bang::bang:

Too late, you're doomed

Cheers!

Abbazz

 

[joachim]

Dear Ronald,

Yes, it can be done, but it might well place an excessive strain on the front standard, and it would be bulky and inconvenient (cf Retinas) so it probably won't be done.

Cheers,

Roger

Just to add to what Roger wrote. There is also the Mamiya 7, which I understand is still available new and plenty on the used market. This offers several interchangeable lenses (43mm to 150mm coupled plus an uncoupled 210mm). Many of those which want to change the lens will buy (or have bought already) into this system, reducing the market for a front converter.

From what Tom wrote earlier, it seems we can not expect the folder to come a lot cheaper than a Mamiya 7.

 

[Harry Lime]

I think that to add a crank wind that wouldn't be prone to failure would make this already largish folder even larger.

I agree and believe this was a smart move on the part of Fuji /Cosina. Almost every 6x7 like the Mamiya 6/7 and folders suffers from a weak film advance.

If you roll the advance knob along the inside of your index finger and thumb you can advance very rapidly. That's how PJ's did it with screwmount LTM cameras.

But I highly doubt that anyone is going to need a fast advance on this sort of camera.

 

[Harry Lime]

To tell you the truth - if the Bessa III was a 6x7 / 6x9 combo, I'd be pacing the floor waiting for its release next Spring.

Yeah, I would love to see a 6x7/6x9 version of this camera.
And a miniature 6x4.5 / 6x6...

 

[Ronald_H]

Just to add to what Roger wrote. There is also the Mamiya 7, which I understand is still available new and plenty on the used market. This offers several interchangeable lenses (43mm to 150mm coupled plus an uncoupled 210mm). Many of those which want to change the lens will buy (or have bought already) into this system, reducing the market for a front converter.

From what Tom wrote earlier, it seems we can not expect the folder to come a lot cheaper than a Mamiya 7.

Thanks. I am 'researching' MF at the moment. Everything from Fuji 645's to Rolleiflexes. Gear is cheap, I mastered (well more like 'apprenticed') DIY B/W development and it's time to step up from 35mm. Digital is boring.

I looked long and hard at lots of stuff, but there are Hasselblad's 500 C/M's out there, with back, finder and 80mm lens for 300 euro-ish. Just what I want.

 

[Ernst Dinkla]

I agree and believe this was a smart move on the part of Fuji /Cosina. Almost every 6x7 like the Mamiya 6/7 and folders suffers from a weak film advance.

If you roll the advance knob along the inside of your index finger and thumb you can advance very rapidly. That's how PJ's did it with screwmount LTM cameras.

But I highly doubt that anyone is going to need a fast advance on this sort of camera.

No idea whether it is needed. Copying the Koni Omega Rapid rack film advance + superior film clamping would have been a good idea I think.
Faster than any other solution and the patent must have expired.

Quote from another forum:
Because 220 film does not have a paper backing and other cameras have to change the pressure plate setting to compensate for two different thickness' of film, many wrongly think that the Rapid must use two different magazines for the same purpose. During film advance with a Rapid back the first 1/8 inch of handle or knob movement retracts the film pressure plate away from the film and film plane about 1/16" before the film moves. This avoids scratches on the film altogether. At the end of the cycle, the last 1/8 inch or so, the pressure plate presses the film back to the magazine film plane ready for exposure. No adjustments are necessary for different thickness' of film. One magazine for both 120 and 220 film backs. Of course, one must complete the film advance/shutter cocking cycle completely to make sure the pressure plate is in proper battery.
end of quote

Ernst Dinkla

 

[kuzano]

(Deep Booming Voice.....)

(Deep Booming Voice.....)

My God! Is this the camera that would lead me to the dark side of medium format? The must buy factor is very strong in this new Voigtlander! Must fight the temptation! :bang::bang::bang:

I AM YOUR FATHER PETER... YOU MUST COME TO THE DARK SIDE OF MEDIUM FORMAT! THE POWER IS STRONG IN YOU!!

 

[athos]

Look at the video and you can see into the bellows from the rear. There is no focal-plane shutter to be seen.